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Age Discrimination

Sorry to hear that.
Maybe when the owner realises those younger cooler guys don't typically spend half what an older crowd does, he'll change his mind and beg you to come back.

It might be a bit different over there but Ive been running pubs and clubs in Australia and now New Zealand for over 22 years and worked in them as muso and dj for 10 years or more before that.

I can tell you that in general (and this is all generalisations) the 18 - 35 crowd have a generally higher disposable income for drinking. If they like a place they'll be there every week. The 35-55 crowd have kids, mortgages etc and might go out to see a band occasionally. They might treat themselves to a meal and drinks but won't party as long or hard. It is getting even harder for this group with much bigger mortgages than any previous generation, at least in this party of the world.

The youngsters might only have a total of $120 disposable each week but they don't have a problem spending every cent on their party night.

The middle age blokes are your bread and butter who'll turn up a few times a week or more and have 2-4 drinks (or more if they're single or divorced) every visit. They'll keep your venue alive...... If you really want to pull in big $$$$ you attract the younger crowd on Friday and Saturday nights. They can be fickle so you have to be careful.
 
Well, it's finally happened... Age discrimination.

Not really discrimination. In any sense of the word.

You're a product selling to a specific market. Up to you to expand this market.

It's this. You gotta be versatile, and sell yourselves. My band is trying to break into the upscale hotel/restaurant market around here, it's hard. And a lot of why it's hard is that these are very desirable gigs, and to be brutally honest, both our image and our current setlist is not really appropriate, so we are taking active steps to remedy that. We will end up with multiple press kits. We also need to get on Snap/Insta and start learning how to work that, FB is OK for getting people my age out to see us, but the brutal truth is this: old folks don't go out as much and don't stay for the whole set. We need to be getting it out there to people twenty years younger than me - and I'm the youngest guy in the band. That's on us.

Or we can do the same thing we've been doing since I was 20 and watch the last of the badly-paying gigs dry up and then blame age discrimination.
 
Well, it's finally happened... Age discrimination.
After playing a particular local venue several times over the past few years with great turnout, a packed house of diners, drinkers, and dancers, then getting no replies & no return communication to our attempts to book more dates, we learned this:

A friend who plays in another band that has played this venue regularly and has also been getting the cold shoulder was told by his booking agent that the venue's manager said he doesn't want any more 'grey haired old guy bands' on his stage. He wants 'young bands who can draw a younger, cooler clientele and not players who look like their fathers'.

So I guess it's all about what you look like at this place.

This venue is dead to me now.
I find it hard to believe you wouldn't be asked back if you're really packing the house with diners, drinkers and dancers. You say you have played there over the past few years, so the owner(s) have to have some economic sense.
 
the venue's manager said he doesn't want any more 'grey haired old guy bands' on his stage.

I wonder how the manager would feel if Mick Jagger and Keith Richards walked in to play, or Bruce Springsteen, or McCartney, or...well, you get the idea.

Last weekend I attended a show by a Beatles tribute band. Each of the four members was probably in their late 20s to mid-30s. They were tight, but what struck me was that I don't think I'd seen such an old audience grooving to such a young band. It was kinda funny.
 
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I'm not going to get my soapbox completely out..... but I will say this.

It's not your hair.

If you guys DRESSED the part, ACTED the part, and put on a show, they wouldn't give a crap what color your hair is.

The real problem is that most gray haired misicians are LAZY. Don't worry. I'm almost 47 and most forty-somethings are just as lazy.

You can NOT show up in shorts and Fender Tshirts to a gig..... ANY gig. You can NOT show up in white New Balance sneakers... to ANY gig. You can NOT show up with zero lights in a bar. Unless you are in a Buffett tribite band, you can NOT wear a Hawaiian camouflage shirt amd a straw hat to ANY gig.

No, great musicianship is NOT enough. You have to LOOK the part and ACT the part.

If you had the look, put on a show, AND kept a crowd until closing time, you would have more work than you wanted.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, (other than other musicians) wants to see a bunch of dumpy old guys who look like they just got off the riding mower playing CCR and Atlanta Rhythm Section all night. Nobody.

I've said it before and will say it again. Try a little harder. Don't be lazy.

Don't forget the five pairs of cargo shorts and music stands for iPads, blinking light metronomes, and between song banter (during guitar swaps for "les Paul songs") limited to "uhh, that was Peter Frampton".
 
I'm not going to get my soapbox completely out..... but I will say this.

It's not your hair.

If you guys DRESSED the part, ACTED the part, and put on a show, they wouldn't give a crap what color your hair is.

The real problem is that most gray haired misicians are LAZY. Don't worry. I'm almost 47 and most forty-somethings are just as lazy.

You can NOT show up in shorts and Fender Tshirts to a gig..... ANY gig. You can NOT show up in white New Balance sneakers... to ANY gig. You can NOT show up with zero lights in a bar. Unless you are in a Buffett tribite band, you can NOT wear a Hawaiian camouflage shirt amd a straw hat to ANY gig.

No, great musicianship is NOT enough. You have to LOOK the part and ACT the part.

If you had the look, put on a show, AND kept a crowd until closing time, you would have more work than you wanted.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, (other than other musicians) wants to see a bunch of dumpy old guys who look like they just got off the riding mower playing CCR and Atlanta Rhythm Section all night. Nobody.

I've said it before and will say it again. Try a little harder. Don't be lazy.
You hit the nail on the head. I am sick of seeing bands that just don't give a crap how they look. You don't need to have a lustrous head of hair, a 34 inch waist and 22 inch biceps to look presentable. Cargo shorts, misshapen t-shirts, and old sandals just don't cut it. Standing there, eyes glued to the music stand (and I have no problem with judicious use of music stands), making no attempt to do anything but plow through each song, looking like they are bored themselves. THAT is why most bands have a problem getting jobs, young or old.

Put on a pair of big-boy long pants (linen if it's hot), a shirt that doesn't look like you pulled it from the bottom of the laundry basket, and footwear that doesn't look like you stepped in a pile of dog do-do; play the songs like you enjoy them (whether you do or not), drag your eyes away from your safety blanket every once in a while, and look like you are having a good time.

No get off my lawn and go put on some pants you young punks and old geezers.
 
If an owner can't do the arithmetic on a $600 investment yielding $2,000 in sales his business deserves to die.

$600 to get $2000 in sales may not be that great. He has to take out food and drink costs and added labor needed for that evening to cover a larger crowd. He probably needs to see $3000 or more or greater to make it worthwhile. Sports on TV is close to free unless you get one of the all games tickets.
 
I'm not going to get my soapbox completely out..... but I will say this.

It's not your hair.

If you guys DRESSED the part, ACTED the part, and put on a show, they wouldn't give a crap what color your hair is.

The real problem is that most gray haired misicians are LAZY. Don't worry. I'm almost 47 and most forty-somethings are just as lazy.

You can NOT show up in shorts and Fender Tshirts to a gig..... ANY gig. You can NOT show up in white New Balance sneakers... to ANY gig. You can NOT show up with zero lights in a bar. Unless you are in a Buffett tribite band, you can NOT wear a Hawaiian camouflage shirt amd a straw hat to ANY gig.

No, great musicianship is NOT enough. You have to LOOK the part and ACT the part.

If you had the look, put on a show, AND kept a crowd until closing time, you would have more work than you wanted.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, (other than other musicians) wants to see a bunch of dumpy old guys who look like they just got off the riding mower playing CCR and Atlanta Rhythm Section all night. Nobody.

I've said it before and will say it again. Try a little harder. Don't be lazy.

Is there a way I can like this post 1000000 times??
 
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Ain't that the truth.

As a favor to the manager of a neighborhood pub I bar-tended and managed the front end 3 nights a week and also to help add live music to the venue. Three partners owned the place two mostly silent but the third was a micro manager first class who fought over ever spending the money for decent bands and wanted to get by with a one night a week open mic we paid a guy $50 to run and an Irish Band of walk ins on another weeknight who played for a $100 bar tab.

We only had one weekend with a top rockabilly band and set a bar record for sales but when that owner learned we'd paid $600 for the band that was the end of that even though we did over $2k more than usual that night. Hell, we made enough off a $5 cover alone to pay the band. But after that bands got a $100 bar tab only and we ended up with lousy bands and their 12 drunken friends all drinking off that tab and tipping no one.

We had a nice 35-55 age upscale crowd of regulars who spent big but eventually got pushed away in favor of a younger crowd most of whom inhabited a nearby apartment complex and could nurse a ten spot all night by cadging some freebies from the servers. Once my regulars began to vanish so did I. Less than two months later even after denying it would happen the entire staff was let go, they closed down, and sold the license to someone else having lost a ton of money in the process.

Some owners just don't know when they've got it good.
Been there, as part of the market that was shed.

A bar in Sydney was for a long time where virtually my whole scene went before and after our club nights, and most other nights of the week. We drink like fish, bring no trouble and tend to squelch fights before they properly break out. The bar went out of business due to mismanagement, and was eventually taken over by a star in the field of making over bars.

Pre-opening night came, and some of us paid a courtesy visit to sound out the new establishment. The new manager made all the right noises, so we thought all was well... until the next club night, on which we turned up in our usual array of leather, PVC, corsets and the rest, to be stopped at the door. On our insistence, the manager was summoned, and we enquired as to the problem.
Him: Problem? Oh... yes. About your clothing. Sorry, but it's going to scare away the other patrons.
Us: But you said we'd be welcome.
Him: I did, and you are, but only if you're dressed like normal people. I need to make sure I have steady business here.
Us: Do you understand we provided two thirds of the revenue before this placed closed, and we'll provide it for you if you'll serve us?
Him: Sure you did. And I said you're welcome to come in, just... not dressed like that.
Us: Are we welcome, or aren't we? Pick one.
Him: You're welcome if you're dressed like normal people.
Us: Good luck.

He actually thought he could draw the gay crowd from their usual neighbourhood, into an area notorious for the kind of knuckleheads who're into poofter-bashing, with his famous star-power. That went as well as you'd expect, and we found another local.

The place closed in three months, reopened a short while later with the top floor converted to backpacker accommodation, then closed again for good.
 
$600 to get $2000 in sales may not be that great. He has to take out food and drink costs and added labor needed for that evening to cover a larger crowd. He probably needs to see $3000 or more or greater to make it worthwhile. Sports on TV is close to free unless you get one of the all games tickets.

You are probably right, but without knowing what the margins and labor costs are, it's just a guess.
 
I'll just leave by saying grey hair and beards can be cured by Just For Men. ;)

But.....there is NO excuse for not dressing so you can tell the band apart from the patrons or for not keeping your chops up. You can even play "old school" stuff but choose it well and play it well and people will dance and party no matter what their age.

Age is not an attitude it's only a way to remember what year you were born. :p
I had a discussion about this with my daughter about a year ago. I'm in my low 60's, she's in her 30's.

She said that, yes they will dance and party to the "old school" stuff, if they happened to already be there. But if you add in some newer music that THEY grew up with, they'll come back and bring their friends.
 
It might be a bit different over there but Ive been running pubs and clubs in Australia and now New Zealand for over 22 years and worked in them as muso and dj for 10 years or more before that.
You have me curious: I was in Sydney 2000-2012, and Wellington for a couple of years before that. Anywhere I'd recognise?
 
Not really discrimination. In any sense of the word.
Actually in 2 out of 3 definitions (the ones people forget about) it fits without a doubt, and I believe it discriminates for age and there is nothing anyone can or should do about it. Find an art form that celebrates aging or is age neutral.
If however you are a semi dangerous legend, play original music and wear the costume you've worn all your life, you may still be cool.
The problem is that R&R is a glamour and youth (Dionysian) art form (it's support comes from youth marketing including product consumption), and like ballet, your functional life is probably over by age 45.

Definition of discrimination
1a : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment
  • racial discrimination
b: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually

2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing

  • the film viewed by those with discrimination
3a : the act of making or perceiving a difference : the act of discriminating
  • a bloodhound's scent discrimination
b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently
 
Some interesting stats bar owners should know...
New Study Shows Millennials Aren’t Drinking In Bars & Everyone Has An Opinion On It
https://thetakeout.com/report-more-millennials-drinking-it-up-at-home-because-1826762439
The next big trend for bands should be in-home concerts... Kinda busking, but indoors and with better facilities!

Diego

"More frugal..." They don't have any discretionary income. When you're playing at a place that gets $11 for a vodka and tonic, the younger portion of the audience imbibes in the parking lot. Whatever. We get paid to get the crowd to stay and enjoy themselves. I know we're good at it, because toward the end of the last set, a squadron of Ubers pull up in front.:D
 
Actually in 2 out of 3 definitions (the ones people forget about) it fits without a doubt, and I believe it discriminates for age and there is nothing anyone can or should do about it. Find an art form that celebrates aging or is age neutral.
If however you are a semi dangerous legend, play original music and wear the costume you've worn all your life, you may still be cool.
The problem is that R&R is a glamour and youth (Dionysian) art form (it's support comes from youth marketing including product consumption), and like ballet, your functional life is probably over by age 45.

Definition of discrimination
1a : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment
  • racial discrimination
b: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually

2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing

  • the film viewed by those with discrimination
3a : the act of making or perceiving a difference : the act of discriminating
  • a bloodhound's scent discrimination
b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently

My band is living proof that this is not necessarily so. All but one of us is over 50. Here is a picture of the crowd at our most recent gig, last Saturday night. Young, old, and most importantly club owners of all ages, don't seem to have any problem with us.

062318swpubcrowd3.jpg
 
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