• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Age Discrimination

Biggbass

Biggbass

Dec 14, 2011
5,629
7,961
Planet Earth
#1
Well, it's finally happened... Age discrimination.
After playing a particular local venue several times over the past few years with great turnout, a packed house of diners, drinkers, and dancers, then getting no replies & no return communication to our attempts to book more dates, we learned this:

A friend who plays in another band that has played this venue regularly and has also been getting the cold shoulder was told by his booking agent that the venue's manager said he doesn't want any more 'grey haired old guy bands' on his stage. He wants 'young bands who can draw a younger, cooler clientele and not players who look like their fathers'.

So I guess it's all about what you look like at this place.

This venue is dead to me now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: barrenelly, ooglybong, mobdirt and 32 others
#3
Kind of funny, I have a first gig with a new band on Friday and I'm thinking about shaving the beard off and maybe dyeing the gray/white. I'm about ten years older than the rest of the band - hard rock power trio doing an opening set. One of my grandkids is old enough to make me a great granddad :meh:. Right now I have to wear a hat to not look like freakin Santa LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: fiestygnome, girllustrator, ghostinthemach and 13 others
#4
Oddly said:
Sorry to hear that.
Maybe when the owner realises those younger cooler guys don't typically spend half what an older crowd does, he'll change his mind and beg you to come back.
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth.

As a favor to the manager of a neighborhood pub I bar-tended and managed the front end 3 nights a week and also to help add live music to the venue. Three partners owned the place two mostly silent but the third was a micro manager first class who fought over ever spending the money for decent bands and wanted to get by with a one night a week open mic we paid a guy $50 to run and an Irish Band of walk ins on another weeknight who played for a $100 bar tab.

We only had one weekend with a top rockabilly band and set a bar record for sales but when that owner learned we'd paid $600 for the band that was the end of that even though we did over $2k more than usual that night. Hell, we made enough off a $5 cover alone to pay the band. But after that bands got a $100 bar tab only and we ended up with lousy bands and their 12 drunken friends all drinking off that tab and tipping no one.

We had a nice 35-55 age upscale crowd of regulars who spent big but eventually got pushed away in favor of a younger crowd most of whom inhabited a nearby apartment complex and could nurse a ten spot all night by cadging some freebies from the servers. Once my regulars began to vanish so did I. Less than two months later even after denying it would happen the entire staff was let go, they closed down, and sold the license to someone else having lost a ton of money in the process.

Some owners just don't know when they've got it good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fiestygnome, Garret Graves, barrenelly and 30 others
#7
It’s not about the band, it’s about the audience. I’m in two bands of gray beards, and our audiences drink less and go home earlier. If the venue wants a hopping bar til 2am they need a younger crowd. The trick is to find the right venue. We do well with restaurants, just after the dinner hours, usually playing until 11pm. Our crowd might not drink as much, but they come for dinner, and easily spend much more on food and drink than the young folks do. Find a place that “gets” it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fiestygnome, Pilgrim, girllustrator and 15 others
#11
RustyAxe said:
It’s not about the band, it’s about the audience. I’m in two bands of gray beards, and our audiences drink less and go home earlier. If the venue wants a hopping bar til 2am they need a younger crowd. The trick is to find the right venue. We do well with restaurants, just after the dinner hours, usually playing until 11pm. Our crowd might not drink as much, but they come for dinner, and easily spend much more on food and drink than the young folks do. Find a place that “gets” it.
Click to expand...

That has become the problem hasn't it. Those same "Boomers" who would party 'til they dropped now go home at 11:00 instead of 2:00 and we're helping pay off our kids college debts so free cash flow ain't what it used to be for many and many of the prime dance clubs are no more or have changed.

I believe you're thinking correctly shooting for places who do more food business and host an earlier crowd. Right now a buddy of mine and I are thinking along the lines of putting together a trio that can begin unplugged for the first set then ramp up into some amplified stuff as the night moves on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fiestygnome, girllustrator, jeffbrown and 3 others
#14
I'm not going to get my soapbox completely out..... but I will say this.

It's not your hair.

If you guys DRESSED the part, ACTED the part, and put on a show, they wouldn't give a crap what color your hair is.

The real problem is that most gray haired misicians are LAZY. Don't worry. I'm almost 47 and most forty-somethings are just as lazy.

You can NOT show up in shorts and Fender Tshirts to a gig..... ANY gig. You can NOT show up in white New Balance sneakers... to ANY gig. You can NOT show up with zero lights in a bar. Unless you are in a Buffett tribite band, you can NOT wear a Hawaiian camouflage shirt amd a straw hat to ANY gig.

No, great musicianship is NOT enough. You have to LOOK the part and ACT the part.

If you had the look, put on a show, AND kept a crowd until closing time, you would have more work than you wanted.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, (other than other musicians) wants to see a bunch of dumpy old guys who look like they just got off the riding mower playing CCR and Atlanta Rhythm Section all night. Nobody.

I've said it before and will say it again. Try a little harder. Don't be lazy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dmq89, fiestygnome, Garret Graves and 92 others
#15
soulman969 said:
We only had one weekend with a top rockabilly band and set a bar record for sales but when that owner learned we'd paid $600 for the band that was the end of that even though we did over $2k more than usual that night. Hell, we made enough off a $5 cover alone to pay the band.

Some owners just don't know when they've got it good.
Click to expand...

If an owner can't do the arithmetic on a $600 investment yielding $2,000 in sales his business deserves to die.
 
  • Like
Reactions: barrenelly, Beej, TH63 and 16 others
#16
Just out of curiosity, what's you're set list like? Is it dated? Is it modern? Style of music? I'm guessing you're a covers band?

I don't see an issue with a business having a vision and plan and acting on it. Does it negatively affect you? Only if you let it. There are other venues out there.

If I opened up a music venue or a bar or restaurant and my goal was to attract the crowd that is statistically spending more money on the services I offer, than I'm sure as hell not going to hire entertainment that simply won't appeal to the majority of them.

Oddly said:
Sorry to hear that.
Maybe when the owner realises those younger cooler guys don't typically spend half what an older crowd does, he'll change his mind and beg you to come back.
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that. I've worked in the food service industry and I've had far more arguments with older folks about prices being raised and far more situations regarding poor tips/gratuity.

One quick google search brought up this article for example.

Invalid Link Removed

"As might be expected, Americans' patronage at restaurants, coffee shops and bars declines as they get older. Younger millennials — the 21-to-26 crowd – are the age group most likely to belly up to the bar: 51 percent of them typically go to a bar at least once per week, followed by 42 percent of all millennials, 24 percent of "Generation Xers" and 19 percent of baby boomers."
 
  • Like
Reactions: girllustrator, Pendulous, HolmeBass and 3 others
#17
Biggbass said:
Well, it's finally happened... Age discrimination.
After playing a particular local venue several times over the past few years with great turnout, a packed house of diners, drinkers, and dancers, then getting no replies & no return communication to our attempts to book more dates, we learned this:

A friend who plays in another band that has played this venue regularly and has also been getting the cold shoulder was told by his booking agent that the venue's manager said he doesn't want any more 'grey haired old guy bands' on his stage. He wants 'young bands who can draw a younger, cooler clientele and not players who look like their fathers'.

So I guess it's all about what you look like at this place.

This venue is dead to me now.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call that age discrimination.
Your band simply doesn't seem to cater to the audience which the venue wants to attract.
Maybe look at that and make changes accordingly, if you decide to expand your audience base?
You're a product selling to a specific market. Up to you to expand this market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marmadaddy, Fretless1!, smogg and 3 others
#18
soulman969 said:
I believe you're thinking correctly shooting for places who do more food business and host an earlier crowd. Right now a buddy of mine and I are thinking along the lines of putting together a trio that can begin unplugged for the first set then ramp up into some amplified stuff as the night moves on.
Click to expand...
Good idea. One of the "bands" is a trio, and we usually get $100/man for 3 hours, and are home in bed before midnight. Our gigs are usually within 30 minutes of home, and many are less. We play acoustic instruments (acoustic bass guitar, acoustic guitar, acoustic dobro) with minimal sound reinforcement. If we get other gigs we can perform as trio, four, or five piece, adding drums or keys or pedal steel guitar.

The other is a five-piece, and the BL has figured out (in his 54 years of leading a band) that we do better when we run the gig. We have a local social club in which we have the hall two Sundays a month and host a dinner/dance from 5-8pm. I was leery at first, but we've been drawing 100+ every other week for the past year, paying a $10 cover. Cash bar (the club's) and cash pub grub (also the club's). We usually do better than $150/man when all is said and done. We had been doing this for 10 years at a different social club that eventually closed due to mismanagement (not OUR fault ... ;)). It took us about 3 months to regroup and find the place we use now. All of our regular crowd has been there to support us!

Yes, the market has changed ... and the only way to survive in it is to understand the how and why, and adjust.
 
  • Like
Reactions: barrenelly, girllustrator, larrygs and 8 others
#20
Bunk McNulty said:
If an owner can't do the arithmetic on a $600 investment yielding $2,000 in sales his business deserves to die.
Click to expand...
Yeah ... but ... you assume there's profit in it. To be fair, one needs to understand the overall margin the venue is working at. If the overall profit is 25% then $2000 in sales does NOT cover the cost of the band. It increased the gross, but not the net.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seanto, Raulplaysbass, PillO and 4 others

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back