Age Discrimination

[Bunk McNulty]

I'm not going to get my soapbox completely out..... but I will say this.

It's not your hair.

If you guys DRESSED the part, ACTED the part, and put on a show, they wouldn't give a crap what color your hair is.

The real problem is that most gray haired misicians are LAZY. Don't worry. I'm almost 47 and most forty-somethings are just as lazy.

You can NOT show up in shorts and Fender Tshirts to a gig..... ANY gig. You can NOT show up in white New Balance sneakers... to ANY gig. You can NOT show up with zero lights in a bar. Unless you are in a Buffett tribite band, you can NOT wear a Hawaiian camouflage shirt amd a straw hat to ANY gig.

No, great musicianship is NOT enough. You have to LOOK the part and ACT the part.

If you had the look, put on a show, AND kept a crowd until closing time, you would have more work than you wanted.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, (other than other musicians) wants to see a bunch of dumpy old guys who look like they just got off the riding mower playing CCR and Atlanta Rhythm Section all night. Nobody.

I've said it before and will say it again. Try a little harder. Don't be lazy.

Some bands don't get it and they're never going to get it. You can't just show up and play. You've got to realize that you're selling a product, and you'll do a lot better if the product looks right and sounds good. Also, you've got to put in the face time with the people who do the booking. That means going out on weekday nights, hitting the open mics and jams. Redhead is now into year three, and our BL is still making the rounds, looking for new places to play.

You've also got to realize that no matter your personal distaste for social media, it is a great free resource for not just promoting yourselves but getting your regulars to promote you too. I've posted this elsewhere, but for educational purposes:

 

[LowActionHero]

nobody wants to see a FOG band playing deep cuts

Nobody but me, but i know I'm in the minority.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Yeah ... but ... you assume there's profit in it. To be fair, one needs to understand the overall margin the venue is working at. If the overall profit is 25% then $2000 in sales does NOT cover the cost of the band. It increased the gross, but not the net.

Perhaps. As a former supplier of alcohol to businesses like this one, I have some notion of what the margins are. You're probably right, and I'm too lazy to get out the calculator. I will say this: The margins on spiritous beverages, at least in Connecticut and Massachusetts, are fantastically higher than they are for beer or wine. The most extreme example is shots of Jack Daniel's: The stuff is cheap at wholesale, there are no concerns about storage temperature, and a monkey in a people suit can learn to pour a one-ingredient drink.

 

[redwingxix]

Those stats don't surprise me. How many times have you ever had to fluff the tip at a restaurant after your parents or grandparents left the table?

I think two fingers may be on to something. Not saying this is the case in your scenario but I think a lot of times people perceive discrimination against themselves when there are other valid reasons for undesirable outcomes that they consider unfair. Just because you are a gray haired old guy (let him who is without gray hair cast the first stone!) doesn't mean that you have to be in a gray haired old guy band.

 

[mikewalker]

I'm not going to get my soapbox completely out..... but I will say this.

It's not your hair.

If you guys DRESSED the part, ACTED the part, and put on a show, they wouldn't give a crap what color your hair is.

The real problem is that most gray haired misicians are LAZY. Don't worry. I'm almost 47 and most forty-somethings are just as lazy.

You can NOT show up in shorts and Fender Tshirts to a gig..... ANY gig. You can NOT show up in white New Balance sneakers... to ANY gig. You can NOT show up with zero lights in a bar. Unless you are in a Buffett tribite band, you can NOT wear a Hawaiian camouflage shirt amd a straw hat to ANY gig.

No, great musicianship is NOT enough. You have to LOOK the part and ACT the part.

If you had the look, put on a show, AND kept a crowd until closing time, you would have more work than you wanted.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, (other than other musicians) wants to see a bunch of dumpy old guys who look like they just got off the riding mower playing CCR and Atlanta Rhythm Section all night. Nobody.

I've said it before and will say it again. Try a little harder. Don't be lazy.

Exactly what I was going to say...

 

[redwingxix]

Also, yeah I definitely wouldn't play at that place anymore, but I would want to make sure that I wasn't facing the same situation when I got in good with the next regular place.

 

[RoadRanger]

As far as social media goes - I have one 'band" that I created a FB page for a couple years ago and it has exactly TWO likes so far, me and the BL of another of my bands. The other three members of this band won't "like" it. WTH? I'm tempted to "hide" the page and see if anyone notices LOL. We do host a monthly "live music night" at the social club across the street from where we rehearse and have plenty of material for a 3-4 hour gig...

 

[soulman969]

If an owner can't do the arithmetic on a $600 investment yielding $2,000 in sales his business deserves to die.

It as actually $2k more than a typical Sat. night and that was with a $5 cover that included a ticket for one pint of draft beer or a well drink. So even after the freebie drinks we still made a bundle.

The problem became "well if we can do this with a $600 band why not a $100 band"?

I brought this thinking up in another thread.

If a club owner has no appreciation of the differences between a good band and lousy one and no real business plan for how to consistently offer top entertainment profitably he should probably stick with a DJ or recorded music. It's half art and half science and those who don't "get it" probably never will. This guy didn't.

 

[soulman969]

Good idea. One of the "bands" is a trio, and we usually get $100/man for 3 hours, and are home in bed before midnight. Our gigs are usually within 30 minutes of home, and many are less. We play acoustic instruments (acoustic bass guitar, acoustic guitar, acoustic dobro) with minimal sound reinforcement. If we get other gigs we can perform as trio, four, or five piece, adding drums or keys or pedal steel guitar.

This is more or less what I had in mind. Stay smaller and simpler gear wise. Be eclectic musically but stick with stuff that's easily recognizable mixing in both dance and listening material, get paid well, go home early.

Once a format is established it's not hard to add to it musically or with other player for gigs that call for it but my concept has always been it takes three core players to create any band. It could be two guitarists and a bass and you add drums when needed. Done that. It could be drums, bass and guitar with keys added when needed or with keys and the guitar is added. It all starts with that core trio.

 

[Mvilmany]

Young people go out and party and take risks and drink until late in the evening. Most older folks are in bed by 10 or 11.

Young people don’t use Facebook, because their parents and other over 40 people are there. They use Snapchat, because that’s what their peers use.

Young people don’t want to go see bands of older people. They want to see performances by people their own age.

I remember thinking that the Stones were old back in the 1980’s. Classic, Legends, but old. This is how my niece perceives the Red Hot Chili Peppers today.

 

[HELLonWHEELS]

This isn't discrimination unless you had an existing contract with the venue that was wrongfully terminated due to your "age".

 

[Ric5]

 

[SWRnut]

Well, it's finally happened... Age discrimination.
After playing a particular local venue several times over the past few years with great turnout, a packed house of diners, drinkers, and dancers, then getting no replies & no return communication to our attempts to book more dates, we learned this:

A friend who plays in another band that has played this venue regularly and has also been getting the cold shoulder was told by his booking agent that the venue's manager said he doesn't want any more 'grey haired old guy bands' on his stage. He wants 'young bands who can draw a younger, cooler clientele and not players who look like their fathers'.

So I guess it's all about what you look like at this place.

This venue is dead to me now.

This is a concern of our band. We have stayed booked on a real regular basis, but realize that some clubs are deferring to younger bands that can't play.

 

[soulman969]

LMAO I know what I'd like to say but I can't say it here.

 

[Iofflight]

Well, it's finally happened... Age discrimination.
After playing a particular local venue several times over the past few years with great turnout, a packed house of diners, drinkers, and dancers, then getting no replies & no return communication to our attempts to book more dates, we learned this:

A friend who plays in another band that has played this venue regularly and has also been getting the cold shoulder was told by his booking agent that the venue's manager said he doesn't want any more 'grey haired old guy bands' on his stage. He wants 'young bands who can draw a younger, cooler clientele and not players who look like their fathers'.

So I guess it's all about what you look like at this place.

This venue is dead to me now.

yeah this sucks.. to me this was part of the brilliance of Daft Punk. Originally they donned the masks to keep some anonymity but now that they are 45 years old and one of them is practically bald this was a smart move. Robots don't age.

 

[GBBSbassist]

This is a concern of our band. We have stayed booked on a real regular basis, but realize that some clubs are deferring to younger bands that can't play.

I've seen young kids stink up a music venue, and I've seen old farts play like hacks. Playing ability has nothing to do with age. It has to do with work, and some natural ability if we're one of the lucky ones. Most of us aren't and it takes work to play well.

If it's a concern of your band, than you should be actively addressing it. Is your setlist tired? Do you guys dress well and engage the audience?

 

[soulman969]

Yeah ... but ... you assume there's profit in it. To be fair, one needs to understand the overall margin the venue is working at. If the overall profit is 25% then $2000 in sales does NOT cover the cost of the band. It increased the gross, but not the net.

But that's not the case. The cost of goods (beer, wine, booze) is typically less than 25% of sales. If you can get the bartenders and servers to push premium brands and "house special" shots and shooters it can be even more profitable. Some clubs will even goose prices $.50 - $1.00 per drink when they have live bands to cover the cost.

So if we're talking a club where 100-200 people go through in a night they can pay decently well for a live band and still do more business than they would do without. It's when they can't pull those numbers that it becomes an issue of money so it usually pays to develop a following in a few and keep playing them.

 

[faceless_master]

I'm not going to get my soapbox completely out..... but I will say this.

It's not your hair.

If you guys DRESSED the part, ACTED the part, and put on a show, they wouldn't give a crap what color your hair is.

The real problem is that most gray haired misicians are LAZY. Don't worry. I'm almost 47 and most forty-somethings are just as lazy.

You can NOT show up in shorts and Fender Tshirts to a gig..... ANY gig. You can NOT show up in white New Balance sneakers... to ANY gig. You can NOT show up with zero lights in a bar. Unless you are in a Buffett tribite band, you can NOT wear a Hawaiian camouflage shirt amd a straw hat to ANY gig.

No, great musicianship is NOT enough. You have to LOOK the part and ACT the part.

If you had the look, put on a show, AND kept a crowd until closing time, you would have more work than you wanted.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, (other than other musicians) wants to see a bunch of dumpy old guys who look like they just got off the riding mower playing CCR and Atlanta Rhythm Section all night. Nobody.

I've said it before and will say it again. Try a little harder. Don't be lazy.

I'd like to see this post engraved on large stone tablets and placed in front of every venue in the country.

 

[soulman969]

I'll just leave by saying grey hair and beards can be cured by Just For Men.

But.....there is NO excuse for not dressing so you can tell the band apart from the patrons or for not keeping your chops up. You can even play "old school" stuff but choose it well and play it well and people will dance and party no matter what their age.

Age is not an attitude it's only a way to remember what year you were born.

 

[mrjim123]

Depressing thread, but mostly hits the nail on the head. I'm 67, played my first nursing home gig a few years ago. A guy I used to play with, 1 year older, plays in a jazz band that does nursing homes somewhat regularly.