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Aggressive P/J pups
- Thread starter Selta
- Start date
I got them a while ago. Let's see...........as far as I know I bought the only active P/J set that they offer. There is no model number associated with this set. They were about $125. I don't remember which online store I got them from because I have used many of them but if you search "EMG PJ" on the internet you will find some of the stores that sell them.Bad_Habit_Bassist said:Which model are they? How much did they cost you? Where did you get them?
Ray
Sorry I wasn't much help but I try.
Dharmabass said:
The first decision is deciding on a J bridge pickup. I'll pick the DiMarzio Ultra Jazz for two reasons:
1) It is higher output than a Model J
2) It has a scooped tone pattern
I'll have to think about the location for the J pickup. Looking at my spread sheet data, I see there are a few varying locations for the pickup. Measured from the 12th fret to the pole piece center:
MIA Jazz is 14.9"
Another MIA Jazz is 14.375"
'62 Jazz and G&L SB2 is 14.5"
MIM J fretless and RB5 are 14.4"
I don't have the Marcus Miller measurements yet. Perhaps a trip to the music store is in order...
Next step is fabricating a router jig for the pickup cutout. I figure this can be secured to the body using the existing holes for the bridge and pick guard. Butcher paper should suffice to keep the body from getting scratched.
A small hole from the bridge cavity to the controls is required.
Switching is a concern. I think the J should be fully isolateable via a switch for P-only mode. I want to retain the series/parallel switching for the existing P. Also, are J+J wired with two pickups in series or parallel? I understand there is a pretty big tone difference.
Volume controls are a major stumbling point. For me, I'd rather keep the tone control in favor of losing the volume control, if one has to go. I always run wide open, and adjust at the amp. I often turn the tone all the way down for a dubby P-tone.
I have this bass envisioned as running either P-only, or P+J, both full on. Dunno about Bridge solo, probably not, considering it will be with Flatwounds.
Wow, the thread just ends here? I want my money back! 
Since I'm sort of back lurking a bit, I'll throw in on this hand.
Correct on points 2 & 3 but not on point 1. The DiMarzio J is a split coil humbucker (like a P), not a stack. So if you coil-tap you'd only get 2 strings. DiMarzio's 4-conductor wiring can only be switched series/parallel.
OTOH, the Duncan J stacks are also 4-conductor and will support coil tapping. And a stack may give you the extra bottom you're missing from your stock SD J. (Note the QP J is not a stack...)
That's what blend pots are for. Good thing it's a standard feature on many P/J's.
Stock J+J wiring is parallel. Series is the mod to beef it up. That's always been a single-coil issue, I've never seen or heard of anyone wiring a P/J or any 2 humbucker axe in series.
I think your idea for switching instead of a blend pot is very interesting. I've been thinking along the same lines re adding a neck pickup to my P-bass.
My first thought was to use a 3-way pickup switch with V/V/T/T ala Rick wiring. But it sounds like you don't want to add any more control holes beyond a pickup switch?
The tone control is the easy part, you can either use a master tone or a dual concentric pot.
Now, like you, I always run vol up full and adjust at the amp. And since you're not interested in soloing the J (which I never do), I suspect that you, like me, may also tend to favor the P on a blend pot. So my suggestion is:
1) use a blend pot instead of volume
2) use a 3-way pickup selector switch as P/P+J/KILL
As long as your P is dimed on the blend (center detent, or P-side of center), you will have full vol on the P soloed. You can preset your blend for the switch to P+J, and if at some point you really want to sound like a woodchuck blowing it's nose... erm, I mean "solo the J" you can still get that from the blend when both pups are on.
Passive volume controls are the biggest waste of control hole real estate. I have no idea why manufacturers insist on using them instead of blend + kill.
Since I'm sort of back lurking a bit, I'll throw in on this hand.
Bad_Habit_Bassist said:
davidmwilson said:
Correct on points 2 & 3 but not on point 1. The DiMarzio J is a split coil humbucker (like a P), not a stack. So if you coil-tap you'd only get 2 strings. DiMarzio's 4-conductor wiring can only be switched series/parallel.
OTOH, the Duncan J stacks are also 4-conductor and will support coil tapping. And a stack may give you the extra bottom you're missing from your stock SD J. (Note the QP J is not a stack...)
davidmwilson said:
That's what blend pots are for. Good thing it's a standard feature on many P/J's.
bgavin said:
Stock J+J wiring is parallel. Series is the mod to beef it up. That's always been a single-coil issue, I've never seen or heard of anyone wiring a P/J or any 2 humbucker axe in series.
I think your idea for switching instead of a blend pot is very interesting. I've been thinking along the same lines re adding a neck pickup to my P-bass.
My first thought was to use a 3-way pickup switch with V/V/T/T ala Rick wiring. But it sounds like you don't want to add any more control holes beyond a pickup switch?
The tone control is the easy part, you can either use a master tone or a dual concentric pot.
Now, like you, I always run vol up full and adjust at the amp. And since you're not interested in soloing the J (which I never do), I suspect that you, like me, may also tend to favor the P on a blend pot. So my suggestion is:
1) use a blend pot instead of volume
2) use a 3-way pickup selector switch as P/P+J/KILL
As long as your P is dimed on the blend (center detent, or P-side of center), you will have full vol on the P soloed. You can preset your blend for the switch to P+J, and if at some point you really want to sound like a woodchuck blowing it's nose... erm, I mean "solo the J" you can still get that from the blend when both pups are on.
Passive volume controls are the biggest waste of control hole real estate. I have no idea why manufacturers insist on using them instead of blend + kill.
Very interesting line of thinking... It makes sense to me and satisifies all my requirements.
The tone control could be entirely removed from the circuit by using a tone pot with a push/pull shaft switch. I would wire it to Push (down) as out-of-circuit, and Pull to engage the tone control. I only use the tone control occasionally, so this makes more sense.
With passive pickups, the reason for pickup and tone switching is removing the impedance loading inherent in blend/volume/tone pots. I don't know the tone impact of a blend pot in P+J vs hardwiring P+J, but the tone pot can be switched out in any of the pickup configurations.
- The P has to be switchable to solo mode.
- P+J on a blend pot is the concept missing from my original thoughts.
- I don't see a use for KILL, so would probably wire it as J-solo.
- Tone can be switched out of the circuit.
The tone control could be entirely removed from the circuit by using a tone pot with a push/pull shaft switch. I would wire it to Push (down) as out-of-circuit, and Pull to engage the tone control. I only use the tone control occasionally, so this makes more sense.
With passive pickups, the reason for pickup and tone switching is removing the impedance loading inherent in blend/volume/tone pots. I don't know the tone impact of a blend pot in P+J vs hardwiring P+J, but the tone pot can be switched out in any of the pickup configurations.
The reason for the kill switch is simply to turn it off without a volume control. And you said you wouldn't be using that switch post.
Classic "duh" on my part..
I always spin down the volume control when the bass is not in use. Perhaps it is much smarter to wire in KILL then solo the Bridge using Blend.
I always spin down the volume control when the bass is not in use. Perhaps it is much smarter to wire in KILL then solo the Bridge using Blend.
Good thread ... makes me wanna hurry up with modding my '75 P-bass, which currently has a Model P. Planning on adding a Model J (probably in the same position as my '71 Jazz's bridge pup) and the following wiring:
* Master Volume push-pull ('pull' bypasses the pots on the volume and passive tone)
* 4-way rotary pup selector knob (neck, both series, both parallel, bridge)
* 2 small mini-toggles that allow the Model P and Model J to be individually run in series of parallel
* passive tone ... if and when I add a preamp, it would be an OBP-1 on a stacked knob, with the passive tone push-pull to bypass the preamp
Couple questions/follow-ups:
Bruce -- how do find the difference in sound between the WillPower in series and in parallel? Whenever I've switched a P-pup between series and parallel (e.g. on the Fender S-1 switching system), there was a noticeable difference (as you'd expect) between the two modes...parallel being lower output, brighter, etc. BUT... when I called DiMarzio tech support last week to inquire about a wiring diagram, the fellow I spoke with didn't recommend running the Model P in parallel for some reason... just wanted to check to see if there's anything special about the DiMarzio P-pups in your experience, when switching between series and parallel.
Mitch -- FWIW, my '71 Jazz has UltraJazz in it, and can switch between running both together in parallel and in series (each pup individually is wired in series). Both modes sound great, with the difference being as you'd expect (series is louder, deeper, ballsier with less highs)
* Master Volume push-pull ('pull' bypasses the pots on the volume and passive tone)
* 4-way rotary pup selector knob (neck, both series, both parallel, bridge)
* 2 small mini-toggles that allow the Model P and Model J to be individually run in series of parallel
* passive tone ... if and when I add a preamp, it would be an OBP-1 on a stacked knob, with the passive tone push-pull to bypass the preamp
Couple questions/follow-ups:
Bruce -- how do find the difference in sound between the WillPower in series and in parallel? Whenever I've switched a P-pup between series and parallel (e.g. on the Fender S-1 switching system), there was a noticeable difference (as you'd expect) between the two modes...parallel being lower output, brighter, etc. BUT... when I called DiMarzio tech support last week to inquire about a wiring diagram, the fellow I spoke with didn't recommend running the Model P in parallel for some reason... just wanted to check to see if there's anything special about the DiMarzio P-pups in your experience, when switching between series and parallel.
Mitch -- FWIW, my '71 Jazz has UltraJazz in it, and can switch between running both together in parallel and in series (each pup individually is wired in series). Both modes sound great, with the difference being as you'd expect (series is louder, deeper, ballsier with less highs)
Greg - yeah ok, your J has humbuckers but it's still a J. I guess I could rephrase that to say nobody bothers to run a P in series with another pickup. You could always try it, but my guess is it would just make the P sound muddy.
Bruce - the more I thought about it, running a blend + pickup switch would be difficult. Now I think there's a good reason we see 2 distinct schools of thought on this. You'd have to get pretty creative with the wiring as well as selecting the right switch. A SP3T would work, but would leave "floating hots" that will pick up noise. If you've already figured out a way to do it I'd be very interested to see your wiring diagram.
At this point I'd suggest either pickup switch + dual concentric V/V/T/T, or B/T with a mini-kill.
Bruce - the more I thought about it, running a blend + pickup switch would be difficult. Now I think there's a good reason we see 2 distinct schools of thought on this. You'd have to get pretty creative with the wiring as well as selecting the right switch. A SP3T would work, but would leave "floating hots" that will pick up noise. If you've already figured out a way to do it I'd be very interested to see your wiring diagram.
At this point I'd suggest either pickup switch + dual concentric V/V/T/T, or B/T with a mini-kill.
A very noticeable difference. Parallel is lower output, clear, not aggressive, perhaps docile sounding.mgmadian said:
Dunno why DM tech says no, but I doubt doing so will increase world hunger or anything else significant. I'm not real thrilled with the sound of my P right now... I suspect it is the TI Flats. My P is very middy sounding, and not the huge, massive bottom I expected, and certainly no thump.
I'd be having major 2nd thoughts about hacking up a '75 P-bass. The value will plummet once you start hacking on it. Mine is a MIM P, so no value to lose. They don't make '75 P-basses anymore... value has to be a lot higher.
MM, I'm swamped in computer work right now, so no free time for circuit design. As always, I will publish a permanent link to my web site on TB. In fact, my web site sux right now too... router problems, and no time to fix it.
bgavin said:
Where do you anchor your thumb? I recently (re-)installed a standard Fender thumbrest in the stock position on my 76. It's the cheapest and best sound mod I ever made. Now I get a big thumpy bottom, and can nail the Tommy Shannon and Geezer Butler tones to a T.
bgavin said:
I'll 2nd that Greg. My 76 already had a neck pup hole routed when I bought it back in 81, so I knew what I was getting. If it was stock I definitely wouldn't rout it. With the $$ you'll lose on the the resale value you could just buy a used MIM P to practice on. Or put it toward a Deluxe P Special or Hot Rod P.
bgavin said:
Yeah, I dunno why the tech discouraged it, either... probably just hadn't tried it. I think it's a great way to add to the tonal palette.
One thing I shoulda mentioned about my 75 P is that it's not exactly pristine, which is part of its appeal, IMO... original finish was stripped off by a former owner and it now sports a clear coat of 'something' on the body (resonates well, though). The bridge is an original BadAss and is routed into the body, and of course the rusty old DM Model P is already in there. So the bass already has a lot of 'character'.
Finally, 'thump' isn't the first word that comes to mind with it now, no doubt in part due to the DM Model P, though thump also isn't the sound I usually want... that said, a couple things come to mind for increasing thumpiness, and when I've needed/wanted it, they've worked well enough: rolling off the passive tone, raising the action, palm-muting at the bridge, and/or muting with the left hand fingers... or some combination thereof.
Metal Mitch said:Where do you anchor your thumb? I recently (re-)installed a standard Fender thumbrest in the stock position on my 76. It's the cheapest and best sound mod I ever made. Now I get a big thumpy bottom, and can nail the Tommy Shannon and Geezer Butler tones to a T.
Great idea... one other thing I've done is stick a small acrylic (?) or plastic 'bumper' (like the kind you can get a Home Depot for placing under lamps or small furniture) to the pickguard near the neck... serves as a small thumbrest.
A little late on this thread but EMGs were always great IMO. I love them and most music I play is 80's - modern metal.
Thumb is either on E or A string as a mute. I learned this technique from playing my RB5, which always wanted to ring on the B string. I find it highly effective. I never touch the pickups.Metal Mitch said:
mgmadian said:
Do you have a circuit diagram for the rotary switch mod? I would love to do something like that...
Wow, this thing's still around? 
here's what I did, eventually:
Went to the local shop and bought some EMGs, did the swap and didn't like it enough more to justify it. Later on I found a friend who was selling a set of Bill Lawrence pickups, and I asked if I could give them a test drive - so I did, and loved 'em, but he sold them before I could get the money. But all is well with me now, as I don't even touch that bass anymore, as I only play my Spector, and maybe a Ric if I get one soon. Got a trade floating about, gotta hope and pray that it works out
Thanks for all the talk guys! Oh, by the way, the ESP has a three way switch, P/P+J/J, and I love it, more so than a blend, cos I only ever use P or P+J, and I just have to flip the switch rather than finding that center dent, which always took me a shade of a second longer.
Ray
here's what I did, eventually:Went to the local shop and bought some EMGs, did the swap and didn't like it enough more to justify it. Later on I found a friend who was selling a set of Bill Lawrence pickups, and I asked if I could give them a test drive - so I did, and loved 'em, but he sold them before I could get the money. But all is well with me now, as I don't even touch that bass anymore, as I only play my Spector, and maybe a Ric if I get one soon. Got a trade floating about, gotta hope and pray that it works out
Thanks for all the talk guys! Oh, by the way, the ESP has a three way switch, P/P+J/J, and I love it, more so than a blend, cos I only ever use P or P+J, and I just have to flip the switch rather than finding that center dent, which always took me a shade of a second longer.Ray
I'm planning a P+P configuration. How does this sound: 3-way/V/V/Kill? I don't due tone controls.
So how does that control setup look? What is the difference between that and a blend knob? Also, what is the difference between having a blend and 3-way?
thanks
So how does that control setup look? What is the difference between that and a blend knob? Also, what is the difference between having a blend and 3-way?
thanks
mgmadian said:
I have a 2004 Precision with S-1 and DiMarzio Model P, and the switch still works fine with the DM. I think it's standard four conductor wiring that allows easy series/parallel switching.
And, in response to the initial request for suggestions about an aggressive P/J combination, I would go with DiMarzio. I have just the Model P, and it's very aggressive, with lots of cut. It's great for hard rock on its own, and adding a Model J certainly can't hurt. I wouldn't want this pickup if it were my only P bass, but I have a '94 MIJ P that nails the vintage tone, so this is a great complement for a punk/hard rock tone.
Some have complained about low output on the E string with the Model P (see Luknfur's awesome P pickup experiment). I thought this was a problem through one rig I used, but with my "mini" rig of GK 700RB-II and Neo112 at a gig last week, I had boatloads of punch from all strings. Not a problem at all.
