Aguilar TH500 just blew up

[jzucker]

The power supply/power amp board is a non-repairable assembly since the safety certification is based around it. It's also incredibly difficult to repair, even the manufacturer of those modules doesn't repair them, it's just not cost effective.

The preamp board should be straight forward with the docs.

you're missing the point. both boards are throwaway. If you have a problem, you just replace them. The point is that a repairman can't even get a replacement preamp board. Aguilar/korg is basically saying if you're out of warranty and it's not the power amp board or the rubber feet you're SOL.

And the other point is THERE ARE NO DOCS. There is no schematic, no repair information, no test point measurement reference.

If you're under warranty and the preamp board is bad, you'll just get a whole new amp.

Otherwise, they don't give a you-know-what.

 

[agedhorse]

you're missing the point. both boards are throwaway. If you have a problem, you just replace them. The point is that a repairman can't even get a replacement preamp board. Aguilar/korg is basically saying if you're out of warranty and it's not the power amp board or the rubber feet you're SOL.

If you're under warranty and the preamp board is bad, you'll just get a whole new amp.

Otherwise, they don't give a you-know-what

Ummm, no I'm not missing the point. The preamp board is repairable for a qualified tech.

 

[jzucker]

Ummm, no I'm not missing the point. The preamp board is repairable for a qualified tech.

First of all, there is no test documentation, no schematic. Secondly, it's all surface mounted parts on a multi layer board. Good luck tracing and testing the circuit with no layout or schematic available.

If you want to make something supportable and repairable, you offer replacement parts for everything including both boards. END OF STORY.

Nobody in the industry who isn't doing their own repairs in house (other than markbass) does this.

Fender offers complete boards, complete schematics and documention on test points for all their amps. Their stuff is throwaway too but they realize the value of supporting their products.

Back when there was an aguilar, it wasn't a big deal. You just sent the amp to aguilar and they fixed it. Who are you going to send it to now, Korg???

And regarding competent repairment - ALL FOUR REPAIR SHOPS I CONTACTED were listed by korg as authorized repair centers. You trying to tell me that korg/aguilar has incompetent repairman doing their authorized repairs?

Makes zero sense...

 

[agedhorse]

Authorized service centers can get the factory support (if they want to repair them). If they don't want to work on them, I agree that's a shop issue that the manufacturer should address.

Surface mount on 2 sided boards, not a big deal for a qualified shop.

Fender's amps are not "throw-away" either. They are just as repairable as most amps out there.

I hear fairly often that Genz Benz isn't repairable, yet I repair them with no difficulty at all. Under-qualified techs are becoming the norm these days, and at some point manufacturers will need to design their amps to be either repairable by swapping boards or disposable. While some have gotten to this point, it's still not the norm IME.

 

[jzucker]

Yes, i know you're an expert. The 4 authorized repair facilities weren't interested in even trying to repair aguilar because of not being able to get parts and support. Not going to argue with you over this. I spoke to repair sites korg recommended.

Nuff said

Authorized service centers can get the factory support (if they want to repair them). If they don't want to work on them, I agree that's a shop issue that the manufacturer should address.

Surface mount on 2 sided boards, not a big deal for a qualified shop.

Fender's amps are not "throw-away" either. They are just as repairable as most amps out there.

I hear fairly often that Genz Benz isn't repairable, yet I repair them with no difficulty at all. Under-qualified techs are becoming the norm these days, and at some point manufacturers will need to design their amps to be either repairable by swapping boards or disposable. While some have gotten to this point, it's still not the norm IME.

 

[agedhorse]

Yes, i know you're an expert. The 4 authorized repair facilities weren't interested in even trying to repair aguilar because of not being able to get parts and support. Not going to argue with you over this. I spoke to repair sites korg recommended.

Nuff said

Then don't argue. Either find a shop and/or tech that's qualified and wants to work on them or give up and move on. It appears that those are now your options.

Have you tried:
Wickham Audio (Thornville OH)
Expert Electronics (Harrison, OH)

 

[jzucker]

The 4 places I called were the first 4 listed in korg's authorized repair facility search page. (Which is exactly what korg recommended for how I should proceed) 3 of the 4 wouldn't even take it in for repair. The 4th guestimated the repair cost at $500 and wouldn't even guarantee the amp would work afterwards.

I understand my options.

Just want folks to understand what they may be up against if they buy this product and have it fail out warranty.

Then don't argue. Either find a shop and/or tech that's qualified and wants to work on them or give up and move on. It appears that those are now your options.

Have you tried:
Wickham Audio (Thornville OH)
Expert Electronics (Harrison, OH)

 

[agedhorse]

I understand, and agree with your frustration. Part of what you are experiencing is what many will experience in the future as the really qualified techs retire and we are left with “the dregs”.

 

[jzucker]

I understand, and agree with your frustration. Part of what you are experiencing is what many will experience in the future as the really qualified techs retire and we are left with “the dregs”.

I contacted the 2 shops you mentioned. One can't tell me anything. He didn't even know that Aguilar was aquired by Korg. Unfortunately, he wouldn't give me the price of the board or a ballpark estimate unless I sent him $65 (cash only) and the unit. (I know that's standard practice). I'm awaiting a response on the other repair shop.

I'm basically trying to figure out whether to just throw it in a landfill (tbh, that's what I'm leaning toward).

I did contact Korg to see if they could give me the retail cost of the power amp/power supply board but their comms are pretty dodgy...

If the board was $250ish and assuming an hour of labor and I could get it repaired for $350 total it might be worth fixing. Of course, there could be more wrong with it than the one board and at that point, it's not worth it. Not sure it's worth it even if that *DOES* fix it. A genz-benz, it ain't...

 

[bass12]

I understand, and agree with your frustration. Part of what you are experiencing is what many will experience in the future as the really qualified techs retire and we are left with “the dregs”.

I’d love to hear your ideas about why you feel this is the future of repair work - though this thread might not be the place.

 

[jzucker]

I’d love to hear your ideas about why you feel this is the future of repair work - though this thread might not be the place.

I'm not @agedhorse but I think the future of consumer electronics (sadly that's what modern amplifiers have become) is that they weren't meant to be repaired. They were designed to be throwaway. Many of the new ampliers are using ICEPower modules which are very reliable and easy/cheap to replace the boards on.

But some companies like markbass and aguilar have become infamous for designs that are not properly supported by the repair community because they can't get the parts and information from the manufacturers. And several of the authorized korg repair facilities I spoke to say that they won't even accept an aguilar or markbass amp for repair. They just have too long a lead time getting parts and diagrams.

And the boards themselves are not designed like they used to. It's hard to get in there and do repairs. Most of the manufacturers making small class D amps are just sending repair techs full replacement boards so when something goes wrong out of warranty, it's an instant $200-$300 hit, not including labor.

And the old school techs who know how to diagnose problems are gradually retiring and being replaced with techs who fix something by replacing boards until the thing works again. And in cases like aguilar, you end up spending as much for the repair as just going out and buying a used amp...

Several authorized repair stations I spoke to said they were on waiting lists for aguilar and korg parts for over 6 months.

 

[thisSNsucks]

Yeah I emailed korg to get a list of authorized repair shops for my DB750. No luck with their response or service lookup.

I’m in NY and most (all the ones I tried) of the techs won’t go near anything other than an all tube. Most of the responses I got were the hybrid and solid state stuff are throwaway amps.

I was able to fix mine myself (cold solder joint on a part that was listed as being replaced when I bought it used) but if my DB750 or TH700 ever goes I’ll probably look for a new amp company to replace it with.

 

[jzucker]

Yeah I emailed korg to get a list of authorized repair shops for my DB750. No luck with their response or service lookup.

I’m in NY and most (all the ones I tried) of the techs won’t go near anything other than an all tube. Most of the responses I got were the hybrid and solid state stuff are throwaway amps.

I was able to fix mine myself (cold solder joint on a part that was listed as being replaced when I bought it used) but if my DB750 or TH700 ever goes I’ll probably look for a new amp company to replace it with.

I have an email out to the korg support staff asking what the retail price of the board is. If it's $200 I might have a go at fixing it myself or sending it out. But if it's $300+, the landfill gets a new member.

 

[agedhorse]

I stock the replacement modules. $250 is about right but you need to be sure there’s nothing else wrong.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Maybe its time for an upgrade.

I hear Mesa Boogie provides excellent customer service.

 

[jzucker]

Maybe its time for an upgrade.

I hear Mesa Boogie provides excellent customer service.

do they still? Gibson bought them I think.

 

[agedhorse]

do they still? Gibson bought them I think.

Yes, nothing has changed in this regard. We are still repairing amps that go back 30+ years, and we have a couple hundred authorized service centers (though some service centers are not authorized for all products, and most of the Subway series are serviced at the factory).

 

[jzucker]

Yes, nothing has changed in this regard. We are still repairing amps that go back 30+ years, and we have a couple hundred authorized service centers (though some service centers are not authorized for all products, and most of the Subway series are serviced at the factory).

That's Great! Mesa has always done things right!

 

[jjk2007]

Sorry to hear about your issues @jzucker! I’m thankful for the tech I found here in Austin. I have an older Eden WT550 I thought was a candidate for the landfill. He brought it back from the dead and now it sounds like it’s brand new. Good luck getting things sorted out…hope you track down someone that can perform the work.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

jzucker, I'm glad that you liked my post suggesting that you check out Mesa Boogie, and wasn't offended. I tried to phrase it in a way that did not sound like I was screwing with you, (even though in a small, kidding sort of way, I was). Even though I am an Ampeg nut, (vintage stuff mostly, twenty-three of them, I think), what I said about Mesa is true. I have a D800, and Subway 115 cab, and it is REALLY GOOD STUFF. Highly recommended!