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Double Bass AI, Realist Rant
- Thread starter pdbass
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Jason, I bought the 200 watt Wizzy combo a couple years ago. For a combo amp / all-in-one package for DB, I really like it. So do my bandmates. I think it works quite well for doubling also. All IMO of course. Much heavier (44 lbs. ?) than the GK or the Contra though.
Of course, that said, recently I have been mulling over what I should try next ... Wizzy M-line, Wizzy 10, wait for the CM-208 ... or all three ...
This thread has been really interesting for me. I've been using the Realist with my A.I. Coda for about 4 years (Series II). I supplement that with an AMT mic (actually, I think of the Realist as the "supplement").
Of course, the Realist doesn't transmit a sound that is exactly "crisp" -- and can be "muddy" at times. Given its location (under the "E" string foot of the bridge), its nature (piezo warmth), and its need for high tension, it's just not designed for clarity, crispness, "string articulations" or whatever kind of "detail" you might be looking for. That's why David Gage called it "the Realist".
Add that to the A.I. Contra (or Coda in my case): Now, I love the sound coming out of the Coda Series II. But I can also confirm the inconsistent results everyone seems to get (sometimes great, sometimes inaudible, sometimes boomy, etc). My experience this amp is great in smaller venues but has the limitations A.I. says it does. If you are playing in large halls or outside, or with a loud drummer and 2 electric guitars with their amps facing the audience, you may find you need an extension cab to supplement the Contra.
The other week I was playing in a restaurant in a stone cellar carved into the mountainside here in Switzerland, and the Coda was boomy even at very low volume and with the filter turned on up to 12 o'clock. It's just situational and different on every gig. I don't know what kind of amp could have sounded good there, but the audience liked my bass. Sometimes it doesn't sound great to me, but the audience can hear it well.
I use the AMT mic with the Series II Coda and it just sounds great. The Realist by itself cannot transmit a broad enough sound in my opinion. But together (one in each of the Coda channels, separate EQ and volume adjustments possible), it's for me a workable and really good sounding combination mainly for smaller venues. I have a new EA Wizzy cab I plan to experiment with for other larger situations where I need more projection.
Of course, the Realist doesn't transmit a sound that is exactly "crisp" -- and can be "muddy" at times. Given its location (under the "E" string foot of the bridge), its nature (piezo warmth), and its need for high tension, it's just not designed for clarity, crispness, "string articulations" or whatever kind of "detail" you might be looking for. That's why David Gage called it "the Realist".
Add that to the A.I. Contra (or Coda in my case): Now, I love the sound coming out of the Coda Series II. But I can also confirm the inconsistent results everyone seems to get (sometimes great, sometimes inaudible, sometimes boomy, etc). My experience this amp is great in smaller venues but has the limitations A.I. says it does. If you are playing in large halls or outside, or with a loud drummer and 2 electric guitars with their amps facing the audience, you may find you need an extension cab to supplement the Contra.
The other week I was playing in a restaurant in a stone cellar carved into the mountainside here in Switzerland, and the Coda was boomy even at very low volume and with the filter turned on up to 12 o'clock. It's just situational and different on every gig. I don't know what kind of amp could have sounded good there, but the audience liked my bass. Sometimes it doesn't sound great to me, but the audience can hear it well.
I use the AMT mic with the Series II Coda and it just sounds great. The Realist by itself cannot transmit a broad enough sound in my opinion. But together (one in each of the Coda channels, separate EQ and volume adjustments possible), it's for me a workable and really good sounding combination mainly for smaller venues. I have a new EA Wizzy cab I plan to experiment with for other larger situations where I need more projection.
I heard you play in Morgantown WV a few years back and you were quite killing, would love to hear you again.
I used to use a WM12 which worked quite well with the Realist, I have found bliss in my Focus 2 + Bergantino HT112 rig which is kind of a more refined version of the WM12 sound. Lately I have been using mostly a cheap Joe Meek condenser mic crammed through the afterlength. I blend in some Underwood when I need it. Very nice setup.
I used to use a WM12 which worked quite well with the Realist, I have found bliss in my Focus 2 + Bergantino HT112 rig which is kind of a more refined version of the WM12 sound. Lately I have been using mostly a cheap Joe Meek condenser mic crammed through the afterlength. I blend in some Underwood when I need it. Very nice setup.
Same experience with my AI when I have my Realist a lot of situation with a muddy sound (for me).Now with my full circle I find the sound more clear and focused. But I don't use this combination in very loud situation, for the moment. I'm waiting and will see for the wizzy 10 if necessary.(Just waiting Alain got it 
)
I sold my GK150MBE serie2 that I was using with the realist ; I never have a sound that satisfied me. Very boxy and never natural (otherwise in my bedroom). But sure very easy to carry.
I'm sure this serie 2 was not as suitable as the first for DB.( and i hear the serie 3 is worst).
)I sold my GK150MBE serie2 that I was using with the realist ; I never have a sound that satisfied me. Very boxy and never natural (otherwise in my bedroom). But sure very easy to carry.
I'm sure this serie 2 was not as suitable as the first for DB.( and i hear the serie 3 is worst).
Pierre
when you say "series 2" are referring to AI or GK?
for me the AI series II can amplify my sound to perfection, it's just the acoustics that can be difficult, very situational. when i go to a gig now i am taking alternative cabs with me to fit the situation.
having been so happy with the series II, I also tried a series III Coda. the amp itself is fantastic, but I sent the combo back and exchanged it for the AI Clarus. the AI folks, Rick, were really great to deal with and very, very helpful. so I had various reasons but in terms of tone it was "brighter" sounding than series II. And although the lighter weight was really desirable in terms of portability, the series III might be just a bit "too light" for a DB amp depending on what pickup or mic you use. with my punchy AMT mic it was literally moving around on the floor. The series II does not do that because it weighs about 8 pounds more...
when you say "series 2" are referring to AI or GK?
for me the AI series II can amplify my sound to perfection, it's just the acoustics that can be difficult, very situational. when i go to a gig now i am taking alternative cabs with me to fit the situation.
having been so happy with the series II, I also tried a series III Coda. the amp itself is fantastic, but I sent the combo back and exchanged it for the AI Clarus. the AI folks, Rick, were really great to deal with and very, very helpful. so I had various reasons but in terms of tone it was "brighter" sounding than series II. And although the lighter weight was really desirable in terms of portability, the series III might be just a bit "too light" for a DB amp depending on what pickup or mic you use. with my punchy AMT mic it was literally moving around on the floor. The series II does not do that because it weighs about 8 pounds more...
Sorry if i was not clear
My coda is serie 2 and a good compromise. I'm using an AMT 35 too, for very quite situation or mixed. But with the full circle i since don't use my AMT.
I was referring to the serie 2 and 3 of Gallien Krueger.
My coda is serie 2 and a good compromise. I'm using an AMT 35 too, for very quite situation or mixed. But with the full circle i since don't use my AMT.
I was referring to the serie 2 and 3 of Gallien Krueger.
Hey Wilybman! I'm not sure when I'll be down in Morgantown again, but there are plenty of places I'm playing in Pittsburgh, if you ever make it up. Thanks for the nod!
You know, I was reading and re-reading these posts and thinking about SOUND in general. Would most of us choose to sound GREAT to the audience but not so great onstage? Given the choice, I would rather hear GREAT playing with a not-so-great sound (i.e. Eddie Gomez) than superior sound with not-so-great playing. If I can make a good sound happen to my ears and the other players' ears, then my best music can come out. How about you?
I'm becoming very perplexed with the whole perception of sound by us bassists, too. Everyone seems to be striving for a FLAT, un-colored, "hi-fi", "transparent" bass tone--DB or slab. Kinda like trying to find a girl "who just looks great without any makeup or a skirt." Well, as beautiful as my girlfriend is, sometimes I like to see her in a skirt--and she looks even better! A little amp coloration is not a bad thing, IMHO.
You know, I was reading and re-reading these posts and thinking about SOUND in general. Would most of us choose to sound GREAT to the audience but not so great onstage? Given the choice, I would rather hear GREAT playing with a not-so-great sound (i.e. Eddie Gomez) than superior sound with not-so-great playing. If I can make a good sound happen to my ears and the other players' ears, then my best music can come out. How about you?
I'm becoming very perplexed with the whole perception of sound by us bassists, too. Everyone seems to be striving for a FLAT, un-colored, "hi-fi", "transparent" bass tone--DB or slab. Kinda like trying to find a girl "who just looks great without any makeup or a skirt." Well, as beautiful as my girlfriend is, sometimes I like to see her in a skirt--and she looks even better! A little amp coloration is not a bad thing, IMHO.
Rick Jones has been kind enough to talk to me on several occasions in person and patiently answer all my questions. I live near AI headquarters.
At the risk of paraphrasing too liberally, he essentially told me the same thing once re: different rooms and acoustics. I was asking about the effect of floor surfaces on the downfiring woofer. Should I bring a piece of plywood to put under my Contra to get more consistent results? What about my Auralex Gramma (which I have tried too)? He kind of smiled and basically said that the room is the number one factor that causes the greatest variance in how the Contra performs. I mean maybe that's a given that this is true for all amps to a degree.
I guess another way of saying this is - the amp performs very consistently. It's just the room and the situations that introduce all the variances. So you have to do different things in different situations to attempt to best deal with those variances.
I'm not sure I've said anything meaningful ... except don't bother with the plywood thing.
Originaly posted by pdbass: Everyone seems to be striving for a FLAT, un-colored, "hi-fi", "transparent" bass tone--DB or slab. Kinda like trying to find a girl "who just looks great without any makeup or a skirt." Well, as beautiful as my girlfriend is, sometimes I like to see her in a skirt--and she looks even better! A little amp coloration is not a bad thing, IMHO.[/QUOTE]
I personaly believe the amp coloration is NECESSARY to "translate" the thin and unnatural sound coming from ANY pickup into useful and pleasant one. The question, of course, is how much coloration and what kind of coloration. But absolutely flat reproduction is faithful to your pickup, NOT your bass. Just my opinion and experience.
I personaly believe the amp coloration is NECESSARY to "translate" the thin and unnatural sound coming from ANY pickup into useful and pleasant one. The question, of course, is how much coloration and what kind of coloration. But absolutely flat reproduction is faithful to your pickup, NOT your bass. Just my opinion and experience.
I'll agree with you but go one step further: I found that the newer Underwood through a Fishman Pre into the GK bipassing the GK's eq works great. I found the latest version of the realist to be inferior to the underwood.
I've been wanting to to try the AI stuff for awhile now but can't seem to locate one to actually try. Seems like you have to buy to try.:scowl:
I never really thought about it this way, but you make some good points, especially the part about "absolutely flat reproduction is faithful to your pickup, NOT your bass."
I think I understand what you mean about the "color" of an amp working to compliment the "color" (or lack of) from a pickup, when paired in certain combinations.
But there is also the "uncolored" approach. In that approach, finding an amp with the right coloration is not necessary or even desirable. But finding a pickup that reproduces the sound of your bass as accurately as possible is. I guess one of the points you're making is that finding a pickup that works that well and that sounds that accurate is not easy to do. And I agree with that too.
None of the pickups I've tried (K&K BassMax and Double Big Twin, Rev Solo and Schertler DYN-B) sounds as good as a mic to me. And now that I've got a couple of decent mics, generally speaking I don't think I want the amp adding any color.
The times that I am the most dissatisfied with the sound of my pickups is when I A/B them versus a mic.
I (until very recently) was using a Mesa Scout as my main rig for DB. It seemed to work better with my realist than my underwood. I didn't find it boomy...in fact my main problem was a high mid thing that i could never quite dial out to my satisfaction.
It DOES NOT have a down firing speaker like the AI combos, it has a "passive down-firing radiator" ...so it essentially ported...
It DOES NOT have a down firing speaker like the AI combos, it has a "passive down-firing radiator" ...so it essentially ported...
