All amps sounds the same?

[TNCreature]

Come on man!

 

[micguy]

This is the same guy who claims that guitar strings suspended between two workbenches somehow proves that wood does not affect tone.

One of the things I found "entertaining" about that video was he was trying to prove that wood doesn't affect the tone, and to do that he removed the wood that a guitar would have from the picture (OK, that's clever), but....he fixed the ends of the strings to 2 WOOD benches. One step forward, 2 steps back.

People doing pseudo-scientific things (like this guy) often haven't got a clue about how to design a good experiment, and they reach conclusions that (if you look at their experimental design) are not supported by the experiment that they did.

Musical instrument amplifiers set with all their controls at noon usually have a "baked in" tone - they are designed to sound a certain way, and their frequency responses from input to output are usually NOT flat - often far from it. Will they sound more similar if you twist their knobs so their frequency responses are more similar, and you avoid overdriving anything? Yeah, but is that important? Does anyone ever use amplifiers that way?

There are things like the distortion characteristics of their output stages (Vox removed the feedback in their output stages, which means their amps generate different harmonics than everyone else's), where the eq is in the signal path (pre or post clipping) and how they clip in their preamp stages when overdriven that will make them sound very different in those more typical use case situations.

 

[conttador]

And all basses sound the same too…

 

[agedhorse]

One of the things I found "entertaining" about that video was he was trying to prove that wood doesn't affect the tone, and to do that he removed the wood that a guitar would have from the picture (OK, that's clever), but....he fixed the ends of the strings to 2 WOOD benches. One step forward, 2 steps back.

People doing pseudo-scientific things (like this guy) often haven't got a clue about how to design a good experiment, and they reach conclusions that (if you look at their experimental design) are not supported by the experiment that they did.

Musical instrument amplifiers set with all their controls at noon usually have a "baked in" tone - they are designed to sound a certain way, and their frequency responses from inout to output are usually flat - often far from it. Will they sound more similar if you twist their knobs so their frequency responses are more similar, and you avoid overdriving anything? Yeah, but is that important? Does anyone ever use amplifiers that way?

There are things like the distortion characteristics of their output stages, where the eq is in the signal path (pre or post clipping) and how they clip in their preamp stages when overdriven that will make them sound very different in those more typical use case situations.

IMO, this is worth reading more than once. Good information.

 

[Freight Train]

This is quite interesting. It's guitar, but I'd assume the same applies to bass amps, no?

LOL! Absolutely crazy if he's talking about tube amps. It's possible that the amp sections alone of 'properly' designed solid state amps may sound very close to near-identical. Once you get to high-end amps you'd hear nuances in mid and top end in an audiophile or studio playback situation, but I doubt a guitar or bass cab could reproduce it. High quality bass cabs could reproduce differences in tightness of bottom end - Q factor - and low-end extension in higher-quality amp designs vs. budget models, but once you get to quality amps they're gonna be fairly similar. Usually the power amp is designed to be as linear as possible - what goes in is what goes out. But the preamp section is a different thing. Even if it's a solid state pre a deal of coloration can be there depending on design and type of filters used in the eq, not even counting any compression or other processing built in. But barring severe tone modeling baked in, high-end solid state would sound much more similar to each other than any comparison of tube amps. In my solid state days I 90% modeled my rig's tone through cab selection. Now that I'm all tube it's a combination of amp and cab. Just my opinion!

 

[swarfrat]

The setup seems kind of like a humble brag/flex.

I think its more that the YouTube thing generated more/easier income than performing the past 2-3 years. Click baity hornet nest poking generates views.

And no 2am load outs

 

[micguy]

IMO, this is worth reading more than once. Good information.

I just went and re-read it myself, and found a missing "NOT". Just added it. Oops....

 

[Matthew Morter]

I think its more that the YouTube thing generated more/easier income than performing the past 2-3 years. Click baity hornet nest poking generates views.

And no 2am load outs

This is definitely true. He seems like a good player, but yeah clickbait YouTube titles are much more lucrative, maybe I should think about that…. Lol

 

[InkCow]

One of the things I found "entertaining" about that video was he was trying to prove that wood doesn't affect the tone, and to do that he removed the wood that a guitar would have from the picture (OK, that's clever), but....he fixed the ends of the strings to 2 WOOD benches. One step forward, 2 steps back.

People doing pseudo-scientific things (like this guy) often haven't got a clue about how to design a good experiment, and they reach conclusions that (if you look at their experimental design) are not supported by the experiment that they did.

Musical instrument amplifiers set with all their controls at noon usually have a "baked in" tone - they are designed to sound a certain way, and their frequency responses from input to output are usually NOT flat - often far from it. Will they sound more similar if you twist their knobs so their frequency responses are more similar, and you avoid overdriving anything? Yeah, but is that important? Does anyone ever use amplifiers that way?

There are things like the distortion characteristics of their output stages (Vox removed the feedback in their output stages, which means their amps generate different harmonics than everyone else's), where the eq is in the signal path (pre or post clipping) and how they clip in their preamp stages when overdriven that will make them sound very different in those more typical use case situations.

Yes. The “problem” with this video isn’t the premise, the hypothesis, or really even the conclusion: it’s that - because as he clarifies time and time again in it: “he’s a performer, not an engineer” - he uses a very unscientific method to draw his conclusions from (same, as you pointed out, with the guitar body video). Pseudoscience is easy to fall into if you don’t have enough knowledge to not know the difference.

I think it’s a reasonable question he’s asking, and, honestly, I admire that he followed through with trying to find the answer on his own. It probably would have been more productive if he worked with someone with actual engineering knowledge on his journey, though. If he did this twenty+ years ago, he would just be that guy you run into at a music shop or rehearsal space that “had ideas”.

 

[BEADist]

I do not see why the video title "Tested: where does the tone come from in guitar amplifier" is clickbait. Although maybe not scientific enough he does test things and put a lot of time and effort in that video. It is not as if he is just talking to the camera and making easy money with an opinion.

Remember, "All amps sound the same?" is the clickbait title of this thread, not the title of the video.

 

[Matthew Morter]

I do not see why the video title "Tested: where does the tone come from in guitar amplifier" is clickbait. Although maybe not scientific enough he does test things and put a lot of time and effort in that video. It is not as if he is just talking to the camera and making easy money with an opinion.

Remember, "All amps sound the same?" is the clickbait title of this thread, not the title of the video.

This is a good point. I don’t think he is being dishonest at all, and click bait may be a bit too strong of a word for it. But I totally agree that he is just honestly trying to test these things, he isn’t saying he is the worlds expert and he couldn’t be wrong or anything like that. I think people do over hype wood in terms of tone, but I still do think it’s a factor. I would be interested to try this experiment. Get a fender jazz bass, and then build an EXACT copy of the fender jazz, same electronics, dimensions, and everything, but make it out of Warwick type woods, bubinga body, Ovangkol and wenge neck, and then A/B them with the same rig. That would determine if the wood was a factor if it sounded different or the same. I think removing the wood altogether doesn’t prove that wood doesn’t affect tone, it just shows that the pickup can still get the signal without wood under it, and you would only hear the tone of the pick up.

 

[mrjim123]

Put me in one of those rooms with all those different rigs with a bass and a cable, give me about five minutes on each one, and owing to some differences in the amp topology and the difference in cabs, I'm gonna sound like me on each one as I work through them.

You will too.

No, I'm NOT gonna sound like you. I might sound like me, though.

 

[banjackal]

I think the key takeaway from the video is that if you understand how the different tone stacks work, you can get "close enough" without shelling out top dollar for a vintage tube amp

 

[agedhorse]

I think the key takeaway from the video is that if you understand how the different tone stacks work, you can get "close enough" without shelling out top dollar for a vintage tube amp

I think it depends very much on your definition of "close enough".

 

[banjackal]

I think it depends very much on your definition of "close enough".

Close enough for a bar gig

 

[Nebadon2000]

Close enough for a bar gig

I heard a good friend and great bass player[who knows his way around Amp's] Band play at Bar Gig with Mesa D800+ and Subway 1x15.

Then 2 weeks later at same Bar play at multiple Band Charity event having to use Backline Amp a Rumble 500

The Rumble wasn't 'Close Enough'; granted I am more attune to Bass sound/tone than average patron but even if they weren't paying attention they heard the difference also

 

[InkCow]

I heard a good friend and great bass player[who knows his way around Amp's] Band play at Bar Gig with Mesa D800+ and Subway 1x15.

Then 2 weeks later at same Bar play at multiple Band Charity event having to use Backline Amp a Rumble 500

The Rumble wasn't 'Close Enough'; granted I am more attune to Bass sound/tone than average patron but even if they weren't paying attention they heard the difference also

Nah. Unless it was a charity event for needy bassists or something was REALLY wrong with the eq settings, nobody is going to have paid enough attention to the bass tone to notice.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Nah. Unless it was a charity event for needy bassists or something was REALLY wrong with the eq settings, nobody is going to have paid enough attention to the bass tone to notice.

I did not say they noticed but they still heard the difference

 

[InkCow]

I did not say they noticed but they still heard the difference

You are technically correct, the best kind of correct

 

[banjackal]

I heard a good friend and great bass player[who knows his way around Amp's] Band play at Bar Gig with Mesa D800+ and Subway 1x15.

Then 2 weeks later at same Bar play at multiple Band Charity event having to use Backline Amp a Rumble 500

The Rumble wasn't 'Close Enough'; granted I am more attune to Bass sound/tone than average patron but even if they weren't paying attention they heard the difference also

I wouldn't expect you to be able to get a 500 combo and a d800+ and sw115 to sound close, and that also wasn't the point I was making based on the content of the video.

He was able to get close enough to the sound of some iconic tube amp tone stacks by using various effects that cost a fraction of the rigs he was emulating, while playing through the same cabinet.