All amps sounds the same?

[swarfrat]

Yes, its still click bait. It might not be misleading as to its content, but its provocative enough to stir up every forum I'm a member of.

I happen to be happy with my modeler, and the basic premise is EQ and distortion generating circuit combinations and order. But its still

[edit - This was prematurely sent by my phone. I had more I was going to put here but folks have responded, so I'll leave it. Sorry]

 

[agedhorse]

Yes, its still click bait. It might not be misleading as to its content, but its provocative enough to stir up every forum I'm a member of.

I happen to be happy with my modeler, and the basic premise is EQ and distortion generating circuit combinations and order. But its still

If all amps sounded the same, you wouldn’t need a modeler!

 

[red_rhino]

It probably would have been more productive if he worked with someone with actual engineering knowledge on his journey, though.

Having a real engineer on-hand would have been counter-productive to reaching his foregone conclusion. I don't think he's after the truth.

I do not see why the video title "Tested: where does the tone come from in guitar amplifier" is clickbait.

Because the word "Tested" (which he uses is many of his videos) is a loaded term used to imply that some sort of valid method was used to reach his conclusions. I have "tested" many things myself; that doesn't mean my conclusions were always correct.

Please see my YouTube video titled "Tested: P Basses Sound Like Jazz basses", in which I destroy the marketing BS that only a P bass shaped bass will sound like a P bass. I "prove" this swapping the pickups between my P and J basses, and demonstrating how each now sounds like the other. My rigorous testing method is beyond question, as I took the additional step of nailing each bass to separate workbenches in order to prevent quantum entanglement between the pickups and their former host basses.

 

[swarfrat]

If all amps sounded the same, you wouldn’t need a modeler!

The difference in what he said and what I was getting at there is that I didn't say they sound the same. Just that an important aspect of trying to achieve the various categories of guitar tones we all have come to know and love is largely shaped by order and combination of filter and clipping stages. (And for completeness I'll add push-pull as the third building block - just because you can't accomplish that with EQ alone. )

That may still rile up a bunch of folks, but it's nowhere near as much of a stick in the eye as what he said.

 

[JimmyM]

The difference in what he said and what I was getting at there is that I didn't say they sound the same. Just that an important aspect of trying to achieve the various categories of guitar tones we all have come to know and love is largely shaped by order and combination of filter and clipping stages. (And for completeness I'll add push-pull as the third building block - just because you can't accomplish that with EQ alone. )

That may still rile up a bunch of folks, but it's nowhere near as much of a stick in the eye as what he said.

True. But while I never blame the rig if I sound bad, a lot of rigs don’t make it easy for me, what with Eq that doesn’t do what I want or cabs that put out more lows than I like. And that’s why this vid is sus.

 

[IamGroot]

Now that’s a click worthy video. I want my lost time back from the OPs video

Yes , great video.

I could identify the sound of my preferred brand. Not a tremendous difference, but detectable to me, maybe no one else.

 

[swarfrat]

That doesn't mean your Grizzlyengineer Bloatmaster 100000 is capable of anything your other amps are simply because it has a knob labeled bass, not even with a fixed 7 band graphic eq in place. But matching your favorite amp's 123Hz @ 12 db/oct hpf before the clipping stage followed by a 500 hz q=1.3 +5db boost into a clean inverter, then clipping the stage after like the amp you're trying to emulate will take you a long way. They're not magical, they follow rules. Some folks (not accusing present company, you can read for yourself about examples. Word is Mr Dumble was encased in epoxy in lieu of a casket) as well as a few others have understood this enough to seek to obscure or even mislead folks about how those rules are used.

 

[J Wilson]

No, I'm NOT gonna sound like you. I might sound like me, though.

Well, you could always hope . . . .

 

[dune]

If his video is stirring things up this much, then I'm guessing "mission accomplished". Cha-ching!!!

 

[Jefenator]

I owe that guy an apology - I thought the presentation was actually pretty good.
Nothing wrong with learning how to get 99% there with a couple of pedals. And you never know when you might have to cope with not your preferred backline.
That said, IME tone stacks and power sections do matter. Some dish out my sonic nirvana easy as pie while others force me to wrestle for something I can tolerate.

 

[swarfrat]

Let's also not discount that tackle box has its own serious mojo.

 

[Harper]

Ok, so the video may be oversimplifying.

BUT….

We (or a lot of us) are also guilty of doing mental gymnastics to justify our GAS, when some of those purchases MIGHT not make that much of a difference. YMMV.

 

[micguy]

I think it depends very much on your definition of "close enough".

When I read things like that, I get a visceral reaction - there's absolutely nothing wrong with people that hear something, and say "close enough" - that is entirely their prerogative. I'm just not one of them.

I worked (just retired) my entire career for a pro audio company. We made (among many other things) microphones - very good professional microphones. If we were OK with "close enough", I wouldn't have had a career - the company had achieved that with a product in the 60's (that product still sells - very well, in fact - most of you have used one). But, I'm an engineer that loves audio. I live and work to make things better - I work for for the people that don't say "close enough", but that want something a little better, and for whom the challenge of getting better sound never goes away. I don't design better pro audio products for sale any more, but I am at work on making my basses and my rig sound a little better. I also work on a few people's basses here and there, and make them sound better - being an Audio Engineer driven by improving things not something you can just turn off. I have simulations of the Physics of things going on in bass guitars that I don't think anyone else does - I'm still figuring out nuances, and how to use them to improve things.

Sorry, bordering on a rant, and there's nothing wrong with the person who said "close enough". I just want to stand up for those of us who never give up on making things a little better - there's nothing wrong with any of us, either. Sometimes, in that quest, we stumble over something that makes the world a LOT better, and everyone, (even the folks that say "close enough") stand up and take notice.

Rant off. Carry on.

 

[agedhorse]

There's nothing wrong with seeking perfection, but realizing that perfection means different things to different players with different tastes is something that I have to contend with all the time. 3 different amps, 3 different players, each player may think the perfect amp is different than the other players. That's ok, it's part of the art of design.

My engineering mentor (he passed away last year) drilled into me that I think is worthy of considering... don't let the concept of perfection get in the way of excellence. It's more profound now than it ever has been due to all the options available to us now.

 

[micguy]

My engineering mentor (he passed away last year) drilled into me that I think is worthy of considering... don't let the concept of perfection get in the way of excellence. It's more profound now than it ever has been due to all the options available to us now.

Yes, there is a point where you decide that an idea is sufficiently "baked" to release a product based on it, and you send the perfectionist Engineer back to the lab to work on the next thing. It's not really quite that simple, but the principle is sound.

The other time I had to learn to let go of things was the last few years in may career - when you come up with an idea that's so far ahead of things that it's gonna take 5 years to optimize and turn into a product, and you've got 2 years before you walk out....you figure out pretty fast you have to find someone to pass that baton to, and let them (hopefully) take it over the finish line. There's a couple of really great ideas that I hope to see one day come to fruition, but I have absolutely no control over them at this point.

 

[Akiyama]

There's nothing wrong with seeking perfection, but realizing that perfection means different things to different players with different tastes is something that I have to contend with all the time. 3 different amps, 3 different players, each player may think the perfect amp is different than the other players. That's ok, it's part of the art of design.

My engineering mentor (he passed away last year) drilled into me that I think is worthy of considering... don't let the concept of perfection get in the way of excellence. It's more profound now than it ever has been due to all the options available to us now.

Yes, perfection is nigh impossible. Striving for excellence then working to progress to higher excellence is what we can do. Plus ultra!

In general to the topic, I did not watch the video but read through the thread. I know for a fact that a Vox Ac30 with EL84 power tubes sounds different from a JVM with EL34 power tubes. The harmonic series and dynamics of the tubes are vastly different. It isn’t “all about eq”.

 

[InkCow]

There's nothing wrong with seeking perfection, but realizing that perfection means different things to different players with different tastes is something that I have to contend with all the time. 3 different amps, 3 different players, each player may think the perfect amp is different than the other players. That's ok, it's part of the art of design.

My engineering mentor (he passed away last year) drilled into me that I think is worthy of considering... don't let the concept of perfection get in the way of excellence. It's more profound now than it ever has been due to all the options available to us now.

Perfection might be a privilege that not everyone can afford to attain as well. Budgets are a reality and may dictate “close enough”.

 

[agedhorse]

Perfection might be a privilege that not everyone can afford to attain as well. Budgets are a reality and may dictate “close enough”.

True, but what I am saying is that often a single perfection simply doesn’t exist.

I’ve had situations where I built 2 versions of an amp (the TT actually) and one group of players thought version 1 was “perfect” and the other group of players thought version 2 was “perfect”. Ultimately everybody had to compromise with “just excellent” rather than “perfect”.

IMO, the difference was insignificant… but I’m not “artist caliber”

 

[InkCow]

True, but what I am saying is that often a single perfection simply doesn’t exist.

Indeed. Even to a single person.

 

[Akiyama]

True, but what I am saying is that often a single perfection simply doesn’t exist.

Also, perfection is a moving target due to moods, physiological reasons, weather, and psychological reasons.I remember reading an article, I think it was David Gilmore, saying that he has his favorite guitar but sometimes, “it just sounds bad”. So, then he uses a different guitar. His “perfect” guitar sometimes isn’t the “perfect” guitar.

Vital Signs by Rush

Unstable condition, a symptom of life
In mental and environmental change
Atmospheric disturbance, the feverish flux
Of human interface and interchange

The impulse is pure
Sometimes our circuits get shorted
By external interference
Signals get crossed
And the balance distorted
By internal incoherence