All lows?

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Just went to a charity event in large venue recently. Band was all good musicians, large band, three vocalists, sax, trumpet, keys, guitar, bass, and drums. And they were paid for the event. They played disco funk all night, ugghh. All system was IEM for members, not one amp on stage. FOH was two 15" three way on stands, with three subs on floor. I'll not say what brand, but not a off brand name.

It sounded awful. Only heard bass and drums most of the night, vocals so muddy most were unintelligible, hardly could hear keys, horns, or even guitar. In fact, it took all of 1st set, before I even heard the guitarist.

They had all sorts of stuff monitored by sound guy. Looked like a kid to me. But was a fancy system.

Several people talked with the sound guy complaining, whose stock answer was "We mix for the dance floor". Finally in last set, someone got onto stage and angled the mains to add more into sides, not just aimed at dance floor. Still hardly made a difference, but you could at least tell what was being sang.

Even on dance floor it was hardly any better. Maybe that's what people want, but sure didn't sound like music to me. But I'd bet the IEMs sounded great, so the band probably never knew a thing. Maybe the danger of amateurs and IEMs.

 

[jthisdell]

I recently went to a show where the kick and bass were eq'd the same, all lows, heavy compression, if you listened really carefully you could determine that the bass player was in fact playing different notes, but you had to really try.

 

[Stumbo]

Set you DI to Pre. This will send a flat signal to FOH. At that point it's up to the audio tech to dial in your FOH sound...

This allows your rig to be your monitor. No need to turn up to fill the venue.

 

[MVE]

I used to work sound with a guy who had a tin ear. He had the best gear in town, so he always got the call, but bands were generally thrilled to see somebody else twisting the nobs.

One night on show we couldn't get signal from the opening act's bass. My man was like "it's okay, just crank up the kick drum to compensate."

Suffice it to say there are a lot of people (sound techs included) for whom "bass" is an audio frequency to be felt, not a musical part to be heard, a part defining harmonic structure and playing counterpoint to melody.

Yes, it amazes me how many people think “bass” as a term to define a portion of the audio frequency spectrum and “bass” the instrument, are the same exact thing.

 

[Pings Bass]

Yes, it amazes me how many people think “bass” as a term to define a portion of the audio frequency spectrum and “bass” the instrument, are the same exact thing.

I mean, I don't expect non-musicians to understand fundamentals like this, but a sound tech ought to know some basic things about music.

I used to joke about sound guys mostly being frustrated guitarists. There was one at a club my band in the 80s played at quite a bit. We started bringing our own sound guy, cuz damn.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Are you sure you were sending the sound person post pre? Sounds like the adjustments you made didn't affect the signal you sent the PA. You might have the switch in pre EQ or sg.

 

[707GK]

Are you sure you were sending the sound person post pre? Sounds like the adjustments you made didn't affect the signal you sent the PA. You might have the switch in pre EQ or sg.

It was post EQ. I could definitely hear the changes when pulling out the frequencies requested. I think it sounded like a regular P Bass before EQing and MIDI bass afterwards.

In fact, 2 weeks ago one of my other bands did a 2 hour set and I used the exact same setup, post EQ going DI to the board. The sound engineer told me the bass sounded great and didn’t ask me to touch anything on my amp or bass. Honestly these days I’m really just a plug and play kind of guy, I don’t have very extreme EQ settings. Usually flat EQ on the amp, P Bass tone 100%, minimal compression, no grit except fuzz in just 2 songs for only about 30 seconds each song.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Played a gig with a new group this weekend. Plugged in the P Bass, compressor set to very minimal settings and flat on my GK Legacy 800. Was told I had way too much highs, “the bad kind” by the sound engineer. I took out all the high mids gradually until they were gone, still complained. I took all the highs out, still complained. Got my Jazz bass (mid scoop, essentially no high mids to begin with in comparison to the P) and still complained. Rolled the tone off, then it was too muddy. Put the tone back on full and he said, “it’s workable”

I am not the most experienced out there but I’ve played hundreds of gigs and I’ve worked with at least 50 different engineers both live and in the studio and this is the first time I’ve had to dial out that much high end.

I felt like I was playing a synth or MIDI bass. It was essentially all 80-200hz and everything else was sucked out.

Is this normal? I went along with it, but the mix was so muddy. I could only hear bass and some vocals. And kick drum as I was standing right next to it. My wife mentioned the mix from the seats was also very muddy.

Honestly it made playing super boring. There’s so much more to bass than just that frequency range.

I’ve been playing Fender Basses for almost 40 years with tone and volume controls wide open and fed flat into the house to mix. I have never had an issue with too much treble. In fact, on an odd occurrence, I might get a request for more treble when faced with an acoustical environment that is easily excitable with excess low frequencies. Other than that, I never have issue with sound men and what I bring to the table.

let me add, I always use fresh strings when I gig. I have heard from a lot of sound engineers that one of the grossest thing they have to deal with (outside of two out of tune woodwinds) is a bass player, usually a flat wound users, that hasn’t changed his strings since Hindenburg was running Germany, and thinking “but they’re just getting broke in”.....

 

[40Hz]

It was post EQ, he was happy when I dialed out literally all the treble and high mids (anything above about 500hz) on my rig.

He’s another clueless jackass that only knows how to handle sound for electronica and club - as in “bass and kick are the same instrument.”

If that guy doesn’t get a clue I’d probably walk. Didn’t spend most of my life leaning to play bass only to have some moron reduce it to where I sound like someone beating on a hollow log with an old baseball bat.

 

[Stewie]

Years ago I saw Springsteen live. His sound clown took everything below 100 Hz and cranked it to the headsplitting pain level, and set everything above 100 Hz at barebones minimum. The only songs that were intelligible were with just two acoustic guitars and vocals. My head hurt for days. I would never see him again, even if they paid me. I hope all his shows weren't done that way.

 

[Charlzm]

Played a gig with a new group this weekend. Plugged in the P Bass, compressor set to very minimal settings and flat on my GK Legacy 800. Was told I had way too much highs, “the bad kind” by the sound engineer. I took out all the high mids gradually until they were gone, still complained. I took all the highs out, still complained. Got my Jazz bass (mid scoop, essentially no high mids to begin with in comparison to the P) and still complained. Rolled the tone off, then it was too muddy. Put the tone back on full and he said, “it’s workable”

I am not the most experienced out there but I’ve played hundreds of gigs and I’ve worked with at least 50 different engineers both live and in the studio and this is the first time I’ve had to dial out that much high end.

I felt like I was playing a synth or MIDI bass. It was essentially all 80-200hz and everything else was sucked out.

Is this normal? I went along with it, but the mix was so muddy. I could only hear bass and some vocals. And kick drum as I was standing right next to it. My wife mentioned the mix from the seats was also very muddy.

Honestly it made playing super boring. There’s so much more to bass than just that frequency range.

Why didn't the sound guy just adjust your EQ in the mix instead of asking you to change your sound?

 

[707GK]

Why didn't the sound guy just adjust your EQ in the mix instead of asking you to change your sound?

Great question!!

 

[Allan Allan]

let me add, I always use fresh strings when I gig. I have heard from a lot of sound engineers that one of the grossest thing they have to deal with (outside of two out of tune woodwinds) is a bass player, usually a flat wound users, that hasn’t changed his strings since Hindenburg was running Germany, and thinking “but they’re just getting broke in”.....

I feel personally attacked

 

[xf5]

Played a gig with a new group this weekend. Plugged in the P Bass, compressor set to very minimal settings and flat on my GK Legacy 800. Was told I had way too much highs, “the bad kind” by the sound engineer. I took out all the high mids gradually until they were gone, still complained. I took all the highs out, still complained. Got my Jazz bass (mid scoop, essentially no high mids to begin with in comparison to the P) and still complained. Rolled the tone off, then it was too muddy. Put the tone back on full and he said, “it’s workable”

I am not the most experienced out there but I’ve played hundreds of gigs and I’ve worked with at least 50 different engineers both live and in the studio and this is the first time I’ve had to dial out that much high end.

I felt like I was playing a synth or MIDI bass. It was essentially all 80-200hz and everything else was sucked out.

Is this normal? I went along with it, but the mix was so muddy. I could only hear bass and some vocals. And kick drum as I was standing right next to it. My wife mentioned the mix from the seats was also very muddy.

Honestly it made playing super boring. There’s so much more to bass than just that frequency range.

I'm monumentally curious as to what his thought process was, I can't imagine that would have sounded good no matter where he was standing. It sounds like he's never done sound on actual instruments or something, do you know how much experience he has as a sound engineer?

 

[MDBass]

Played a gig with a new group this weekend. Plugged in the P Bass, compressor set to very minimal settings and flat on my GK Legacy 800. Was told I had way too much highs, “the bad kind” by the sound engineer. I took out all the high mids gradually until they were gone, still complained. I took all the highs out, still complained. Got my Jazz bass (mid scoop, essentially no high mids to begin with in comparison to the P) and still complained. Rolled the tone off, then it was too muddy. Put the tone back on full and he said, “it’s workable”

I am not the most experienced out there but I’ve played hundreds of gigs and I’ve worked with at least 50 different engineers both live and in the studio and this is the first time I’ve had to dial out that much high end.

I felt like I was playing a synth or MIDI bass. It was essentially all 80-200hz and everything else was sucked out.

Is this normal? I went along with it, but the mix was so muddy. I could only hear bass and some vocals. And kick drum as I was standing right next to it. My wife mentioned the mix from the seats was also very muddy.

Honestly it made playing super boring. There’s so much more to bass than just that frequency range.

That “engineer” literally had no idea what he was doing.

If you were sending him too much high end, all he had to do was apply an LPF on your channel with his board.

Nothing about what you described is normal: even a very dark bass tone usually won’t start rolling off until at least 1k.

 

[xf5]

That “engineer” literally had no idea what he was doing.

If you were sending him too much high end, all he had to do was apply an LPF on your channel with his board.

Nothing about what you described is normal: even a very dark bass tone usually won’t start rolling off until at least 1k.

Yeah and the OP had a P bass, which isn't exactly known for it's bright singing tones. Sounds like the engineer was a total numpty.

 

[MDBass]

Yeah and the OP had a P bass, which isn't exactly known for it's bright singing tones. Sounds like the engineer was a total numpty.

That engineer was worse than worthless, truly.

Certain jobs are inherently difficult, but they’re impossible if you’re an idiot

 

[Samatza]

There is a difference between someone that owns some sound gear and someone who is a sound engineer.

I was filling in for a friend at a night club. The sound guy walked up, turned the tone on my Jazz Bass all the way down and said "that's how I want it". Now I'm a very accommodating person but there is no way I'm playing with my tone off so I asked why. "There's some noise" he said so I leaned down and pressed the earth lift on his DI and turned the tone all the way up; no noise.

He was a bit surprised by this it seems and asked me what I did, the reply was really short- "your job!"

 

[lowphatbass]

How big was your rig in comparison to the room? I’ve worked with engineers that are “overly concerned/obsessed” with keeping the power of the mix in their hands and really don’t want to hear your sound on stage whatsoever.
Also, maybe the channel he had you in had some type of pad/filter or was patched only to a particular part of the PA and he was ignorant/oblivious about it.

 

[JRA]

Just went to a charity event in large venue recently. Band was all good musicians, large band, three vocalists, sax, trumpet, keys, guitar, bass, and drums. And they were paid for the event. They played disco funk all night, ugghh. All system was IEM for members, not one amp on stage. FOH was two 15" three way on stands, with three subs on floor. I'll not say what brand, but not a off brand name. It sounded awful. Only heard bass and drums most of the night, vocals so muddy most were unintelligible, hardly could hear keys, horns, or even guitar. In fact, it took all of 1st set, before I even heard the guitarist. They had all sorts of stuff monitored by sound guy. Looked like a kid to me. But was a fancy system. Several people talked with the sound guy complaining, whose stock answer was "We mix for the dance floor". Finally in last set, someone got onto stage and angled the mains to add more into sides, not just aimed at dance floor. Still hardly made a difference, but you could at least tell what was being sang.
Even on dance floor it was hardly any better. Maybe that's what people want, but sure didn't sound like music to me. But I'd bet the IEMs sounded great, so the band probably never knew a thing. Maybe the danger of amateurs and IEMs.

i've forgotten what it is i do when i 'always get things my way'.

better luck next time.