Double Bass allaboutjazz.com article

[Nathan Parker]

1. The original article was an incisive, brilliant bit of comedy from a guy who is clearly from the jazz trenches. The fact that some people don't seem to realize that indicates how close to home he was. No need to get defensive if you superficially fit one of the categories. It wasn't psychoanalysis, he was making a joke. Lighten up.

2. You can make ANY gig a good gig if the players are good. I had a four night per week "dinner" gig that lasted almost 5 years from early 1999 to late 2003. The band was a loose conglomeration of about 10 of the better players in Pittsburgh in trio, quartet or quintet form and I booked it so I was on most of the gigs. I quickly figured out that you could literally play anything you wanted as long as you didn't get too loud.

One of the more extreme examples was one night we had two tenors, bass and drums and played 6 tunes over 4 hours. At times the two tenors, playing simultaneously, were making what sounded like bird noises for up to 10 minutes at a time. It was pretty outside at times and seriously great. There was just enough framing around it that it wasn't free jazz. It still had a pulse and sounded like jazz. This was early in our run and I was sure that we were going to get fired. After we were done, I went down to talk to the manager and he loved it. He said, "I'm starting to see what you are trying to do." I have no idea if he actually heard a note we played but the vibe worked for him. It also didn't take a genius to figure out that what saved us was we kept the volume low. The intensity was there, we just didn't blow it out. After that we had theme nights where we'd only play Wayne Shorter Blue Note tunes or Coltrane night or Cedar Walton night etc. Other nights we only played original music. The sky was the limit. It was a terrific low pressure setting to try stuff out. I learned more tunes on that gig than any other time in my career. One night we read down RTF's Song of the Pharoah Kings (with a low volume acoustic jazz quartet!) which is an extremely difficult black page in 11. We got through it but there is no way I'd try that on a more exposed gig.

While I much prefer playing concerts for thousands of screaming fans, the reality is I play "the most hated music in America" as one of my jazz guitarist friends puts it (he also calls it "jazz-the music of unemployment.") I take what I can get. As long as the other musicians are good, the place we play is of only minor consequence.

mark

Spot on.

 

[TomSauter]

ergo there is only opinion, fact is subjective.

Is that a fact?

 

[Marc Piane]

Is that a fact?

yes, IMHO.

 

[Paul Warburton]

1. The original article was an incisive, brilliant bit of comedy from a guy who is clearly from the jazz trenches. The fact that some people don't seem to realize that indicates how close to home he was. No need to get defensive if you superficially fit one of the categories. It wasn't psychoanalysis, he was making a joke. Lighten up.

2. You can make ANY gig a good gig if the players are good. I had a four night per week "dinner" gig that lasted almost 5 years from early 1999 to late 2003. The band was a loose conglomeration of about 10 of the better players in Pittsburgh in trio, quartet or quintet form and I booked it so I was on most of the gigs. I quickly figured out that you could literally play anything you wanted as long as you didn't get too loud.

One of the more extreme examples was one night we had two tenors, bass and drums and played 6 tunes over 4 hours. At times the two tenors, playing simultaneously, were making what sounded like bird noises for up to 10 minutes at a time. It was pretty outside at times and seriously great. There was just enough framing around it that it wasn't free jazz. It still had a pulse and sounded like jazz. This was early in our run and I was sure that we were going to get fired. After we were done, I went down to talk to the manager and he loved it. He said, "I'm starting to see what you are trying to do." I have no idea if he actually heard a note we played but the vibe worked for him. It also didn't take a genius to figure out that what saved us was we kept the volume low. The intensity was there, we just didn't blow it out. After that we had theme nights where we'd only play Wayne Shorter Blue Note tunes or Coltrane night or Cedar Walton night etc. Other nights we only played original music. The sky was the limit. It was a terrific low pressure setting to try stuff out. I learned more tunes on that gig than any other time in my career. One night we read down RTF's Song of the Pharoah Kings (with a low volume acoustic jazz quartet!) which is an extremely difficult black page in 11. We got through it but there is no way I'd try that on a more exposed gig.

While I much prefer playing concerts for thousands of screaming fans, the reality is I play "the most hated music in America" as one of my jazz guitarist friends puts it (he also calls it "jazz-the music of unemployment.") I take what I can get. As long as the other musicians are good, the place we play is of only minor consequence.

mark

And another "spot on".

Some of my greatest playing experiences were and are places where you can blend in and really let the music flow.
No big expectations or egotistical crapolla.

 

[Michael Case]

And another "spot on".

Some of my greatest playing experiences were and are places where you can blend in and really let the music flow.
No big expectations or egotistical crapolla.

And those moments usually grab a few peoples attention (at least IME).

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

On the other hand in the last year or so, I went to some great gigs at my local concert hall - where more than 2,000 people sat rapt in attention and gave huge applause to Dave Holland's Quintet, Wayne Shorter's and Jan Garbarek's quartets and tickets were sold out!

As a Jazz fan I prefer small intimate, club-type settings, where again people are going purely for the Jazz - but it's a great buzz when you find a lot of other people really appreciate the music you love...!

 

[Paul Warburton]

Bruce, I think the reason that you sound a bit at odds here is that you're approaching the idea completely from a fans perspective.
Since you are a bassist, why not try and approach some of this from a players perspective?
As a listener, I enjoy hearing some of my favorite players in venues where they don't have to live up to preconceived notions and even verbal advertisements about their work.
To be a successful (not in terms of finances) jazz player (in terms of the music) the less hype involved, the more the music is allowed to flow. It gives the players the opportunity to truly be themselves. Taking musical chances is a huge part of improvisation.

To simplify, I'd rather step on my **** in front of a few involved listeners than a few hundred ....but that's just me.

 

[Michael Case]

On the other hand in the last year or so, I went to some great gigs at my local concert hall - where more than 2,000 people sat rapt in attention and gave huge applause to Dave Holland's Quintet, Wayne Shorter's and Jan Garbarek's quartets and tickets were sold out!

As a Jazz fan I prefer small intimate, club-type settings, where again people are going purely for the Jazz - but it's a great buzz when you find a lot of other people really appreciate the music you love...!

And when I'm a player on the level of Dave Holland and playing with guys like Wayne Shorter I'll wave to you in the audience. Until then I'll enjoy the small successes I have as a regular Joe playing the gigs I play.

You still don't get it.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Bruce, I think the reason that you sound a bit at odds here is that you're approaching the idea completely from a fans perspective.
Since you are a bassist, why not try and approach some of this from a players perspective?

Actually I see it the other way around - so throughout this whole discussion, I have been saying that I can see it from the 2 sides - but everybody else is just talking from the players' perspective.

So my point of view is - yes I can see it from a players perspective and have no problem with that - but hey, it's not all about you (as in one, not you Paul!) and the audience is important as well - as a fan I prefer a situation where everybody is concentrating on the great Jazz being played.

It's not that I can't see the other view - I am saying that everybody here is only thinking about their own situation and not about the other side of the coin!!

If there weren't players playing big or exciting gigs to inspire me, like Wayne Shorter,Dave Holland etc - then I think I wouldn't be interested in Jazz at all. If it was all just easy listening aural wallpaper, then I wouldn't be interested in Jazz or inspired to play it..?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well I think there are two ways to look at this and I can see both! ..

So - to back up what I was saying iny my last post - here above and verbatim, is the start of my very first post in this thread - and I think people have just ignored this and focused on the bits they wanted to have a go at...