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Alternating index and middle fingers

J

jazzbass127

Jul 27, 2012
16
3
#1
Hey guys,

I was just playing my electric and I realized I'd never given much thought to which finger I use first when I'm alternating between my index and middle finger. I've always used my middle finger first on upright because an old teacher of mine told me it was more natural (he used the reasoning that when you drum your fingers they naturally move from right to left with the middle finger moving before the index finger). I seem to use my index finger first more often on electric, but sometimes I use my middle finger first.

What do you guys do? Do you see any advantages to either way?

Thanks!
Dan
 
#3
jazzbass127 said:
Hey guys,

I was just playing my electric and I realized I'd never given much thought to which finger I use first when I'm alternating between my index and middle finger. I've always used my middle finger first on upright because an old teacher of mine told me it was more natural (he used the reasoning that when you drum your fingers they naturally move from right to left with the middle finger moving before the index finger). I seem to use my index finger first more often on electric, but sometimes I use my middle finger first.

What do you guys do? Do you see any advantages to either way?

Thanks!
Dan
Click to expand...
JimmyM said:
Nope. Whatever you're most comfortable with.
Click to expand...
That's what I thought. What do you find yourself doing though? Just curious.
 
#7
I usually lead with my middle but "in the moment" it can't matter - gotta play the song with the finger yer on!

If you play the downbeats with your middle finger and upbeats with your index, it makes it easier to use that longer middle finger to jump to another string for the downbeat there.

Good luck!
 
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#10
elBandito said:
My plucking fingers are always alternating. I start with whichever finger lands on the 1. Only exception is when I'm raking down from high string to low string.
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You should try not raking down to a lower string. Made a huge difference in my playing. Fast stuff that I had struggled with when I was raking all of a sudden became much easier. I know people always say "But Jaco raked," but Jaco learned how to alternate first and could do it like a champ before he started raking.
 
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#11
JimmyM said:
You should try not raking down to a lower string. Made a huge difference in my playing. Fast stuff that I had struggled with when I was raking all of a sudden became much easier. I know people always say "But Jaco raked," but Jaco learned how to alternate first and could do it like a champ before he started raking.
Click to expand...

You're losing me here... For some basslines I find it difficult not to rake (e.g. 'Heard It Through The Grapevine' by Gladys Knight and The Pips). Or is there something lost in translation?
 
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#12
I started out trying to alternate consistently, but I'm at the point years later where I seldom think about which fingers I'm using. I also use my ring finger on occasion. The exception is when I'm working on a difficult line for fingering, usually when I'm reading. Once I decide where on the neck is best to play it, I may have to go over the right hand a few times to nail it.
 
#13
Bisounourse said:
You're losing me here... For some basslines I find it difficult not to rake (e.g. 'Heard It Through The Grapevine' by Gladys Knight and The Pips). Or is there something lost in translation?
Click to expand...
I don't do that song but I do lots of Motown in my band, and while Jamerson did rake, he also only used one finger. I don't do either, and I dare say that my Motown playing is quite strong and sounds pretty true to the original versions, except of course my using roundwounds ;)

I'm not militantly anti-raking like I used to be, but the fact is that it totally worked for me to eliminate raking. Therefore I'll put out this challenge to all who rake...give it a good solid month of daily practice with strict alternation only and eliminate raking for that month. Yes, for the first week or two you will stumble and not sound as good as you did when you raked, but it's like a golfer trying something new to improve his/her swing...get past the stumbling part and you will see a clear improvement. I've had people tell me they've done this even though they were skeptical, and at the end of that month they were totally convinced I was right. But it's really not me who's right...I didn't make up the idea. I got it from Dave LaRue, who got it from his teachers, who got it from their teachers, etc.
 
#14
Playing without raking is very difficult. wow. I just felt ********.
JimmyM said:
I don't do that song but I do lots of Motown in my band, and while Jamerson did rake, he also only used one finger. I don't do either, and I dare say that my Motown playing is quite strong and sounds pretty true to the original versions, except of course my using roundwounds ;)

I'm not militantly anti-raking like I used to be, but the fact is that it totally worked for me to eliminate raking. Therefore I'll put out this challenge to all who rake...give it a good solid month of daily practice with strict alternation only and eliminate raking for that month. Yes, for the first week or two you will stumble and not sound as good as you did when you raked, but it's like a golfer trying something new to improve his/her swing...get past the stumbling part and you will see a clear improvement. I've had people tell me they've done this even though they were skeptical, and at the end of that month they were totally convinced I was right. But it's really not me who's right...I didn't make up the idea. I got it from Dave LaRue, who got it from his teachers, who got it from their teachers, etc.
Click to expand...
 
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#16
All good feedback here, and I am totally with JimmyM, you should try pushing things out of your comfort zone always, as that's the way you actually learn new tricks.
I have always follow "what feels natural to me", and I use 4 fingers of my plucking hand (T/I/M/R) . Whenever I needed fast plucking, I would rely on my R-M-I sequence. which is what comes more natural to me. The point is that I often found some sequences where my fingers would act disorganized... like my brain did not have a "plan" before jumping into a phrase in particular, it just sent the fingers in auto-pilot to run a sort of "muscle-reflex" movement, without consistent results. Sometimes I would nail it, sometimes I would stumble and had to recover.

My recommendation would be to challenge yourself with what you would consider "out of the norm" patterns and repeat them until they become natural. If starting with the Middle finger is what you do, try the opposite and exercise. Work up and down patters where you jump strings, or on the same string until the brain captures these patters and adds them in your "palette" or resources.

Every time I spend time bugging myself with these I sense that I give a leap forward in my playing.

I hope it helps.
 
#17
jazzbass127 said:
Hey guys,

I was just playing my electric and I realized I'd never given much thought to which finger I use first when I'm alternating between my index and middle finger. I've always used my middle finger first on upright because an old teacher of mine told me it was more natural (he used the reasoning that when you drum your fingers they naturally move from right to left with the middle finger moving before the index finger). I seem to use my index finger first more often on electric, but sometimes I use my middle finger first.

What do you guys do? Do you see any advantages to either way?

Thanks!
Dan
Click to expand...

Glenn Letsch advises starting with the middle finger. He says that of the students he's worked with, he's observed that those that start with their index finger tend to be less competent in alternating fingers. I think it's in his book "Stuff Good Bass Players Should Know."
 
#18
JimmyM said:
I don't do that song but I do lots of Motown in my band, and while Jamerson did rake, he also only used one finger. I don't do either, and I dare say that my Motown playing is quite strong and sounds pretty true to the original versions, except of course my using roundwounds ;)

I'm not militantly anti-raking like I used to be, but the fact is that it totally worked for me to eliminate raking. Therefore I'll put out this challenge to all who rake...give it a good solid month of daily practice with strict alternation only and eliminate raking for that month. Yes, for the first week or two you will stumble and not sound as good as you did when you raked, but it's like a golfer trying something new to improve his/her swing...get past the stumbling part and you will see a clear improvement. I've had people tell me they've done this even though they were skeptical, and at the end of that month they were totally convinced I was right. But it's really not me who's right...I didn't make up the idea. I got it from Dave LaRue, who got it from his teachers, who got it from their teachers, etc.
Click to expand...

Hi, Jimmy,

I've read your posts about not raking before, and they appeal to me since raking is not something that comes naturally to me.

But it seems like there are times when you just have to rake, and think the Gladys Knight version of GRAPEVINE cited above is a perfect example.

When you have the chance, would you listen to the raked triplets in the chorus section? Can you pull them off without raking?

Please be assured that this is not meant as a challenge, but something I'm asking out of curiosity.

Perhaps the answer is that we need to take the middle path: Not always raking when going to a lower string (as some advise); not never raking (as others advise)--but raking when appropriate to make the part groove.
 
#20
I start on different fingers depending on where the bassline or fill is going; most often index finger, sometimes middle finger, occasionally ring finger. It's not a concious thing, it just happens after practicing a song many times, you gravitate towards a comfortable way of playing a certain line.
 

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