Granted. They were also used on Moserite guitars, also. And Allan's using them. So,like I said, I guess it's good enough for the application.showdown said:
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Aluminium nut?
- Thread starter T-34
- Start date
pilotjones said:
I haven't experienced any wear with the aluminum that I can discern. I'm pretty sure I would see such wear in the form of metal flakes/shavings or a black powder around the nut area. I think this is because bass strings aren't really all that rough to the aluminum because they contact the nut in a very narrow area along the center of the wrap wire. As the string pulls through the nut, it's sort of like riding on ball bearings. Of course, flats would be OK for obvious reasons.
But how's this for split hair detailing...Isn't it possible that the metal in the nut slots is getting work hardened with the friction and pressure of the strings? The rest of the nut could be as soft as a Coke can but the top few microns of thickness in the nut slots could be much harder.
Well, at least it sounds plausible!
Could be work hardening. Could be anodizing at the contact areas due to local galvanism. Maybe neither. Maybe something else.
But if it works, it works.
Ham, you say you polish up the aluminum. Are you finding that it keeps well, or does it get dull as it oxidizes? The nut on my brother's Moserite is all dull. But the cast aluminum bridge plate and whammy bar are still bright, and I don't recall whether they have any protective coating, although I don't think so.
But if it works, it works.
Ham, you say you polish up the aluminum. Are you finding that it keeps well, or does it get dull as it oxidizes? The nut on my brother's Moserite is all dull. But the cast aluminum bridge plate and whammy bar are still bright, and I don't recall whether they have any protective coating, although I don't think so.
I strongly doubt it. If it heats up, and NOT applying much pressure (I doubt nut files and elbow grease would generate much pressure), the increase of heat will bring the material closer to its recrystallization point, which will make it more ductile, hence softer. Unless you quench itHambone said:
.The reason I beleive that aluminum nuts don't wear much is because its outer layer is actually formed by alumina, or aluminum oxyde, which actually a ceramic and very hard. (Aluminum oxydizes instantly in contact with air) So a minuscule layer of alumina will cover the soft aluminum underneath.
It's good to be studying materials engineering
Mon Rominee said:
This is not always true. I believe Pilotjones mentioned this as well. There are many alloy of brass and aluminum, each have different harnesses. In general brass and aluminum are close in hardness.
For example 6053-T6 aluminum is about a 49HRb, and 6061-T8 is about a 75HRb. Brass also ranges from about 50-90HRc.
One major difference between the two is density. Aluminum is typically 0.097 lb/in^3 and brass is about 0.300 lb/in^3.
I have many years experience working with metals and can't see why aluminum wouldn't work well. The brass nut would be heavier thought, and this might have resonant benefits (although I doubt you would notice).
pilotjones said:
When I polish, the lustre stays there quite awhile but I don't know if it will never oxidize. They haven't yet though. This is where my work-hardening idea comes from. Polishing DOES temper the very top surface slightly. It also reduces the pits and pores that act like little seeds for oxidation. But Phil has some good information that I think applies. I would bet that there is a molecular difference between "cast" aluminum and billet aluminum that you would make a nut from. Maybe Phil can eleborate.
Hambone said:
As far as the oxidizing part goes, it can't really oxydize, because it already is oxidysed (how many spellings can I get wrong for the word 'oxidise'?). It should stay that way for ever, until regular wear and tear comes in. The natural oxidation 'coating' is usually a few angstroms thick, or thin rather, while anodizing will thicken that to a few nanometers.
Here's a link that explains briefly oxidation and anodizing:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
For the billet vs. cast argument, I'd have to look into that a bit, cuz you can still (up to a certain point) have the same basic aluminum alloy (say 6061) and produce it in different ways (casting or extrusion). I'm assuming by billet you mean extruded stuff right?
Rock B and Rock C are way different from each other. They over lap somewhat, the high end of one to the low end of the other.
Well, if you follow the whole story, you see that the naturally forming oxide layer is not well bonded, removes with handling, and thus would not be a factor in preventing wear.Phil Mastro said:
There is, however, the likelihood that in the area of string contact, there is a galvanic response, which may, depending on the polarity, either increase and deepen the oxidizing, or conversely, prevent it alltogether in that local area.
"Billet" is what most people use to mean something that is cut from a larger block. The term is is pretty much abused to death with motorcycle parts.
In any case, my point (which I failed to explain sufficiently) with the nut vs. cast bridge base and whammy arm was not that there might be a difference due to alloy; rather that the cast parts in this case were highly polished, and I wondered whether Ham could reinforce if the act of polishing made the surface less prone to visible oxidation.
The article makes it seem as though an oxide layer forms immediately. My experience with millions of pounds of it tells
me that it builds up over time. And that it does come off easily. And at the same time, the dust can have an abrasive effect. (polishing alumina)
Phil Mastro said:
The question was whether polishing held off the visible oxidation - seen as a dullness at first and then, over time, building up to a white powder. That's the oxidation that I'm referring too. I can see how it would.
No, extruded is extruded but billet is carved from a larger piece and, in my case, the material doesn't come from a cast billet.
Use the aircraft-quality T6 stuff!!! If you don't, you'll be onstage in the middle of your first bass solo on your new creation, and your body wings will snap off and you'll go down in flames! And nobody wants to see that!T-34 said:I will try too, bBut the regular one, not T6 (I am pretty sure my local hobby store doesn't carry anything of "aircraft" grade
Just saw in class today that sanding/polishing metals creates a localized plastic deformation of a depth roughly equivalent to the size of your sanding/polishing media.
Hence, plastic deformation = strain hardening, so the polishing does slightly harden/stiffen the material locally. I'll post more info as I get it, if people are still interested in this thread.
Hence, plastic deformation = strain hardening, so the polishing does slightly harden/stiffen the material locally. I'll post more info as I get it, if people are still interested in this thread.
Phil Mastro said:
zac2944 just made a typeo is all. No doubt he meant B. Brass won't ever make HRc 90. A file is only about 64c.
I guess if you can use bone and plastic for nuts then any kind of aluminum you can get your hands on should do the job! Send that thing out for blue anoziding now if you want
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