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Am I an "incompetent" bass player?
- Thread starter Broke
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You're of course welcome to disagree, but I am certainly not encouraging anyone to stop learning.
Here:
To OP and everyone else, I hereby encourage you to keep learning!
Now go back and re-read the entire thread including my post with a bit less judgment. ;-)
Yup, Miles didn't have some hack pounding out root notes.Miles had another MFer on bass though.
This just seems like such a "strawman" discussion to me. No knowledgable musician, ever, has said "competent bassists don't play roots."
Carry on.
I apologize - I didn't mean to sound so blunt, but after re-reading it, I see now that's how I came across.
I just meant that the point of this thread isn't to attack what the competent bass player in the cited thread had to say, it is to address OP's question. Once I saw the thread OP cited in one of their subsequent posts, it added context for me.
What I got from Modler's statement was, "It's incompetent to show up unprepared for a gig, when the other members of the band have taken the trouble to learn the songs note-for-note."
I agree with that statement.
I agree with that statement.
Full disclosure: I haven't read all 10 pages of comments, but if anyone told you to take lessons I agree with them. Just a 1/2 hour lesson every week or 2x a month. It'll really help you out. With a good teacher, you'll learn things so much faster than using forums or YouTube. You've said it yourself that you're 44 and want to enjoy this while it lasts, the best way to get better is to practice well, and it's hard to practice well without someone else guiding you.
Also, the fifth is the fifth note in the scale of the songs key. If you don't know what any of that is take some lessons. Seriously, you'll be better because of it.
Also, the fifth is the fifth note in the scale of the songs key. If you don't know what any of that is take some lessons. Seriously, you'll be better because of it.
An incompetent bassist can ONLY play root notes. A competent bassist can play root notes when appropriate, melodic lines when required and everything in between.
This thread comes across to me as another, "which is more important, groove or technique?" or "which is more important, theory or feel?" thread. Playing bass is not an either/or situation. If you want to be a competent, well rounded bass player, you need to play whatever is called for. If you can't play anything but root notes, I don't know what criteria you could use to call yourself competent.
This thread comes across to me as another, "which is more important, groove or technique?" or "which is more important, theory or feel?" thread. Playing bass is not an either/or situation. If you want to be a competent, well rounded bass player, you need to play whatever is called for. If you can't play anything but root notes, I don't know what criteria you could use to call yourself competent.
Damn bro, you sound like me and I'm only 25! Don't worry about age worry about having fun and enjoying what life has to offer! The more you think about it the more time goes by fast and you start to realize things when it's too late. Don't get trapped in your self conscious void.
Not sure original context that you read, but I would say whoever made that comment may be referring to folks who ONLY play root notes.
I wouldn't say that if you ONLY play roots (no arpeggios or 5ths thrown in, etc) you're incompetent. Possibly a little boring, depending on the song. But not incompetent. Also, some songs just need that low root to hold it down. So it's for sure song-dependent. But if you're in time, with the right feel, etc, it may be basic but not incompetent.
Incompetent can refer to playing too many notes...not understanding the feel, or what the drummer is doing, etc. So never feel bad for keeping it simple. I'd MUCH rather have simple root notes in time than crazy runs and such that really don't complement the rest of the band.
If that's all you can do though, I would highly recommend learning scales/arpeggios and take it to the next level. Cheers!
Maybe someone already mentioned this as there are a lot of replies and I cannot read them all... but... learn your Modes. This will, in a short amount of time, open you up to playing within the chordal structure quite proficiently. Now, I have been playing for about 50 years... (wow, am I really that old?) and I am a "root/pocket" player. Yes, I can walk all over the neck but most of the time this just muddies up a song. Too much coming from the deep-end can sound like... too much. There is nothing but time and discovery ahead of you!
Playing the roots in the groove is fine, but consider that for a lot of songs there is a particular bass line or pattern of notes that forms a "hook" for the song; something that detracts from the song if not done, or at least makes it plainer than the artist intended. If you're covering a hit, there's a reason it was a hit, just maybe the original bass line had a lot to do with it. Why not try to mimic that once you have the root notes down pat for the chord progression?
I'd say to listen intently to the tracks you're covering, focus on the bass, and try to pick up on some of the things the bass player is doing. You can use your computer or phone software to EQ the bass part up a little louder, and some software allows you to slow down the tempo of an .mp3 without impacting the pitch. That's a great way to figure out those things and add them to your performance when you can duplicate them well.
Once you figure that out, you're free to apply what you've learned to other songs IF it feels appropriate. Try it at rehearsal and see what your band mates think. They may want you to keep it simple, or they may encourage you to explore further.
Edit: Picking up some theory along the way certainly can help, but don't get lost in it. It is merely a tool to play better, and to understand WHY you're playing extra stuff; learn BOTH along the way. Learn what a fifth means, sure, but more importantly learn how it sounds and that's why you want to add it.
Something else to consider; with a 5-piece band you have to leave a lot of space for everyone else, usually simple bass lines are all that is needed, depending on the piece. But if you're playing with just a guitarist and drummer, then you may want to think about adding things you learn to help fill in SOME of the space, not every available nook and cranny of course.
The last thing I'll say is make it FUN. I didn't pick up a bass until I was 50; now I'm 62 and have been playing out for 9 years with several different bands, playing many kinds of music. It hasn't always been easy, but it's worth the effort, and rewarding. The great trio I'm in now will gig 25+ times this year, and this is about the most fun I've ever had! Just keep working on it, with your obvious drive to improve, you're going to have a blast!
I'd say to listen intently to the tracks you're covering, focus on the bass, and try to pick up on some of the things the bass player is doing. You can use your computer or phone software to EQ the bass part up a little louder, and some software allows you to slow down the tempo of an .mp3 without impacting the pitch. That's a great way to figure out those things and add them to your performance when you can duplicate them well.
Once you figure that out, you're free to apply what you've learned to other songs IF it feels appropriate. Try it at rehearsal and see what your band mates think. They may want you to keep it simple, or they may encourage you to explore further.
Edit: Picking up some theory along the way certainly can help, but don't get lost in it. It is merely a tool to play better, and to understand WHY you're playing extra stuff; learn BOTH along the way. Learn what a fifth means, sure, but more importantly learn how it sounds and that's why you want to add it.
Something else to consider; with a 5-piece band you have to leave a lot of space for everyone else, usually simple bass lines are all that is needed, depending on the piece. But if you're playing with just a guitarist and drummer, then you may want to think about adding things you learn to help fill in SOME of the space, not every available nook and cranny of course.
The last thing I'll say is make it FUN. I didn't pick up a bass until I was 50; now I'm 62 and have been playing out for 9 years with several different bands, playing many kinds of music. It hasn't always been easy, but it's worth the effort, and rewarding. The great trio I'm in now will gig 25+ times this year, and this is about the most fun I've ever had! Just keep working on it, with your obvious drive to improve, you're going to have a blast!
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This is one of those questions that only you can answer. What drives most of us to practice and study is a desire to improve. The motivation lying behind this.... Where does it come from? We must have some sense of things that we, as musicians, know that we can improve upon.
If you don't have that drive, meaning you are content in your skill set and theory (which is totally fine), then there is no issue. If you want to increase your skill set and level of theory, then there is in an inherent "I'm not as good as I'd like to be" driving you. See what I mean? Anyway....
Rock on and don't let the man bring you down.
If you don't have that drive, meaning you are content in your skill set and theory (which is totally fine), then there is no issue. If you want to increase your skill set and level of theory, then there is in an inherent "I'm not as good as I'd like to be" driving you. See what I mean? Anyway....
Rock on and don't let the man bring you down.
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Thank you Mushroo for tagging me, I wasn't aware that my comment had led to this nonsencical thread.
Just to make things clear:
Playing root notes does not make you incompetent, being inexperienced doesn't make you incompetent either.
I was referring to certain otherwise experienced bass players who are too lazy to learn the songs properly and just resort to playing root notes all the time.
You might get away with that in certain songs, many songs don't need much else than roots. But if you do it on songs like Another Brick in the Wall, Won't Get Fooled Again, Power of Love, Twist and Shout, Ain't No Mountain High Enough, etc., then you aren't filling your role as bass player, and then the keyboard player might be tempted to do something about it with his left hand....
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It is entirely possible that OPie Taylor actually plays more than root.
He may be deficient in terminology and plays very "basic" bass which some might consider "root" bass.
Give the guy benefit of the doubt. OPie is out there playing gigs... I would wager he does play more than the chord root on everything.
He is evidently trying to improve. Willie, Pops, Abe, Otiel, Will, Steele, he is not, but he's still out there making the effort.
Any of those guys I mentioned could play stuff that could make your head spin...Abe could do it and dance... but only if the song called for it... You hardly hear Willie he's so damn perfect and deep in the pocket most of the time...
He may be deficient in terminology and plays very "basic" bass which some might consider "root" bass.
Give the guy benefit of the doubt. OPie is out there playing gigs... I would wager he does play more than the chord root on everything.
He is evidently trying to improve. Willie, Pops, Abe, Otiel, Will, Steele, he is not, but he's still out there making the effort.
Any of those guys I mentioned could play stuff that could make your head spin...Abe could do it and dance... but only if the song called for it... You hardly hear Willie he's so damn perfect and deep in the pocket most of the time...
This is situation dependent. Some bands, such as AC/DC or The Cult, rely on that simplicity as part of their modus operandi....The "feel " and"groove" are whats important. I can name a ton of guitar players in my area alone that would like nothing better than a bass player with great feel and groove to hammer out nothing but root notes
A competent variety bass player can: A person that can walk in any situation and make it work. Yes, having a full knowledge of diatonic theory and chord construction does wonders here....but the point is about being competent which goes back to what I said above: its situation dependent. Not everybody plays variety (or is interested in it)...Keep in mind that there are players out there that have "gigantic ears" and eidetic memory who can hear things and play very complex that couldnt tell you where "C" is on the bass
I think this is where our disparity is: Having a full knowledge of diatonic theory and chord construction makes for a more complete bass player (or any instrument) and provides a lot more options. I highly recommend it...This still has no reflection on the competency of a player where that knowledge deficit doesnt change the dynamic of the project in question...If you are making the argument that knowledge deficit can be limiting to a player then, yes, I agree
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You are playing multiple gigs that have lasted years by playing simply?
There's graduates from Berklee who can't say that!
That is sheer competence and you'd better not argue!
We'll see YOU onstage where competent people play, take care.
So... You quoted me, but you don't want me to know that you've quoted me...?
And then you complain about me being an arsehole and me not giving constructive feedback on your question...?
I don't get this...
And who cares if you are incompetent or not, it doesn't matter as long as you and your band are all happy about how you are playing.
As a keyboardplayer and bass player I am perfectly capable in the band I'm in, as I have the skills that are needed.
But if I was to audition as new keyboard player for Dream Theater, then I could rightly be descriped as deeply incompetent for my lacking skills.
It all depends on the context.
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