Am I diva for not wanting to play for free?

[ggunn]

...Nobody is saying that you're in the wrong if you want to play for free for the enjoyment of it...

Actually, some folks in this thread have been saying precisely that. One in particular said that if you play gigs for free you are "ruining it for everyone".

 

[etherealme]

There's a rotating herd of people on craigslist here around nashville that go in studios privately and record their material with studio musicians then try to put together bands for free to promote it via free shows. Usually telling the live musicians that they're going to go into the studio 'soon' and they'll go with them. Which never happens.

See the same people popping up over and over looking for new musical meat to feed off of.

All of the strawman arguments in this thread are cracking me up. Nobody is saying that you're in the wrong if you want to play for free for the enjoyment of it. There are a lot ways that you can play music simply for the enjoyment of it.

People are saying quit letting yourself being shystered by club owners and promoters who will take advantage of the fact that you'll play music simply for the enjoyment of it. It's making it hard for other musicians to get paid. In my experience, club owners and promoters get what they pay for. That still doesn't mean it's easy for top-level bands to get paid.

These^^^^! +1

 

[SactoBass]

Rule #1: Don't blame the people around you for your lack of success.

That statement trumps all other statements in this thread.

The problem is, too many humans don't grasp that "self responsibility" thing. It's too much work and puts too much responsibility on themselves. It is so much easier to just blame someone else for their lack of success rather than to acknowledge the real reason for their lack of success. Can you imagine living in a world where everyone owned up to their own responsibility and only blamed themselves for lack of success, mistakes, errors, etc. instead of blaming others? That's dreamland. It will never happen because too many humans just don't like that self responsibility thing. It's always someone else's fault!!

They just don't "get it".

The reality is, there will always be competition in almost any field (except perhaps underwater basketweaving while using a left-handed glow-in-the-dark nostril inhaler that has your State motto written on it.......I don't believe there is much competition in that field, at least not yet). Therefore, if a person is truly "self responsible", they will say to themselves "if I decide to enter the music field, I do so with the acknowledgement, awareness, and acceptance of the fact that it will be competitive and if I wanna be successful, I will have to perform better than others, and that is MY responsibility to do that, and if I fail, it is only because of me."

But of course, that is expecting waaaaay too much for "some" people to do that.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Imagine you work in a hardware store and your competitor starts selling the same products as you but 10% cheaper. Do you accuse them of stealing your customers?

Unless your hardware store is a for-profit business and the hardware store down the street is a 501(c), we're comparing apples and oranges here. Your analogy doesn't work, because the purpose of a business like a hardware store is to turn a profit for its owner(s) or shareholders. The hardware store down the street is just choosing to compete on price. It still has the same goal as your store: to turn a profit for its owner(s) or shareholders. Your hardware store can decide to deliver value to customers another way, like with good service or free balloons for the kiddies who come in.

A musician willing to play for free is in music for some different reasons than a musician playing for compensation, yet they still may share the same market.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Actually, some folks in this thread have been saying precisely that. One in particular said that if you play gigs for free you are "ruining it for everyone".

I can't speak for everybody, but the general concensus I'm getting is that if you play gigs where other people are making money (e.g., bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters, concerts), then you are ruining it for everyone.

 

[BrBss]

Bottom line to me is that I don't understand why a club expects me to practice songs, use gas, load/unload/load/unload over 100 lbs of equipment, incur wear and tear on that $1000+ dollars worth of equipment, bring in customers, and help promote their business, without reimbursing me.

 

[SactoBass]

For me, the reimbursement for playing is the fun I get out of performing. Being up there on stage, having fun playing with my fellow bandmates, sounding good, the audience diggin it, and smiling all the way. That's a natural high for me, and that is my form of compensation. That is all I am interested in. I don't need someone to also hand me a few bucks to make it worthwhile for me. I just don't need it. For me, it's all about the joy of playing music.

If the venue makes some money, I say good for them!! Their continued success and existence helps provide me with a venue for me to enjoy the fun of performing. So I hope their business thrives!

As for the notion of me taking away potential income from other musicians, I think some people on this board are making it out to be more than it is. Besides, I don't gig nearly often enough to even show up on the radar screen.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Keep in mind that playing for no pay means playing at a loss. Petrol/ car and travel costs, instrument maintenance and new gear cost a lot of money. Also the time spent practicing and rehearsing has a value too.

Being a good at what you do and having reliable, good sounding gear is worthy of payment.

Too many original bands believe it's their lot to play for free but they need to realize their worth and ask to get paid fairly.
While some may be content with playing for a couple of drinks there are plenty of serious, hard working, talented bands out there that do want to get payed but are made out to be ******** because the manager says "the band we had playing last Friday played for free, and they didn't complain so why should we pay you?"

We all play for fun but that doesn't mean we shouldn't get paid for it.

As I've said, doing something I enjoy, a hobby, I don't have a problem putting money into that. I pay for a gym membership, I pay for my rugby club membership, I pay for my music gear and whatnot. Making a loss? I don't care, I enjoy it!

Damaging to other bands? If other bands are weak enough to not stick to their guns, that is their problem, not mine. If I was wanting to get a paid gig and I got this:

"the band we had playing last Friday played for free, and they didn't complain so why should we pay you?"

That's that band, not us. End off. That's all that needs to be brought up.

If someone wants to get paid, and wants to get paid. Good for them. I don't, the thrill and the buzz of getting to play out and see people enjoy my music is more than enough for me.

It is always down to the individual/band, if other people can't handle the fact that a lot of people are happy gigging and not interested in getting money from it, that is their problem.

 

[shinobi]

you can't be a diva if you are a man. a diva is a woman. men are called 'divo'.

just to clarify

 

[pbass2]

I'm a full-time working pro of 25+ years, and I will on occasion play for free if it's something I feel strongly about--i.e. a good cause, a cool project that I think has "legs", a chance to play with killer players and learn a thing or two and make connections, the occasional fun jam just truly for kicks, etc. BUT, I just try to keep in mind, the time and energy that goes into these things is time that could be spent finding paying gigs, networking and building your web presence, getting dialed in for doing sessions in your own home studio(very important IMHO) and taking care of other business, family/relationships time, exercise, etc. so I try to keep it to a minimum.

I agree in particular with the reply about watching out for frequent freebies for friends---they may be the nicest folks in the world, but very often they come to expect you're "on the team" if you keep being available, and things get pretty yucky when you start feeling taken advantage of.

 

[ggunn]

I can't speak for everybody, but the general concensus I'm getting is that if you play gigs where other people are making money (e.g., bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters, concerts), then you are ruining it for everyone.

That's pretty much the definition of a gig, isn't it? Just about every gig I've ever played has been at a bar, a restaurant, a club, or whatever. If it's worth it to me (Work:Fun+Money) to play the gig, I play it. Whether someone else is making money at the same event is a separate variable and not necessarily relevant.

For example, we played a gig for tips at a restaurant/beer garden last night. We brought in a pretty good crowd and the restaurant had a better than average night. Good for them, and I am not going to hold their feet to the fire to get some of that money. It's a new and struggling place, and it's their livelihood. It's not mine.

They want us back, understandably. It's a symbiotic relationship; they get the benefit of selling food and drinks to the folks we bring in and we get a stage to get our (mostly original) music in front of an audience. It's a win-win.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

That's pretty much the definition of a gig, isn't it? Just about every gig I've ever played has been at a bar, a restaurant, a club, or whatever. If it's worth it to me (Work:Fun+Money) to play the gig, I play it. Whether someone else is making money at the same event is a separate variable and not necessarily relevant.

For example, we played a gig for tips at a restaurant/beer garden last night. We brought in a pretty good crowd and the restaurant had a better than average night. Good for them, and I am not going to hold their feet to the fire to get some of that money. It's a new and struggling place, and it's their livelihood. It's not mine.

They want us back, understandably. It's a symbiotic relationship; they get the benefit of selling food and drinks to the folks we bring in and we get a stage to get our (mostly original) music in front of an audience. It's a win-win.

I guess it's all about perspective, then. Regardless of how much money I make at a day job, I just can't see myself playing below my monetary worth at a club or concert, unless it's a benefit gig or something similar. That's not to say I won't or haven't cut a venue owner a break on price, especially if it was a slow night. However, it comes down to not feeling like I'm being taken advantage of. I have some friends who have a pretty tight blues outfit. They play at this club on a Sunday about once a month. The club owner digs it because they draw pretty decent for a Sunday afternoon and he doesn't have to pay much. I don't mind it from a philosophical standpoint, because the venue probably wouldn't have any entertainment anyways. However, I think they're being taken advantage of, and I just couldn't put myself in that situation.

 

[Demonator]

Your not a jerk, you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[ggunn]

I guess it's all about perspective, then. Regardless of how much money I make at a day job, I just can't see myself playing below my monetary worth at a club or concert, unless it's a benefit gig or something similar. That's not to say I won't or haven't cut a venue owner a break on price, especially if it was a slow night. However, it comes down to not feeling like I'm being taken advantage of. I have some friends who have a pretty tight blues outfit. They play at this club on a Sunday about once a month. The club owner digs it because they draw pretty decent for a Sunday afternoon and he doesn't have to pay much. I don't mind it from a philosophical standpoint, because the venue probably wouldn't have any entertainment anyways. However, I think they're being taken advantage of, and I just couldn't put myself in that situation.

And that's your choice, though your friends may not feel that way at all. I don't have a problem with anyone's choices in that regard; we've each of us got our own set of circumstances and priorities. What does give me some heartburn is folks trying to beat me about the head and shoulders for the decisions I make.

 

[jimc]

As someone who has a good paying day gig I'm on the fence on this. There's a local bar (Folsom Hotel) that has started auditioning bands on Sundays, one band in the afternoon and another at night. You play a full gig for free with the carrot on the stick that, if you do great, you'll get a regular gig. There's seems to be a bunch of bands that don't play very often (probably because they're not very good) willing to do this and bring all their friends along for the ride.

It's a win-win for the bar, they get a free band and a busy bar. It's a maybe win-win for the band, they get to play for their friends and maybe get a another gig out of it. It's a lose-lose for the regular bar bands, some of whose members depend on the $75 or whatever they might make to pay their bills.

To those with decent paying day gigs you need to know that there are a bunch of musicians out there who choose to eek out a very humble living depending on local bar gigs/jams. These are the guys who get upset by the hobbyists. Everyone who thinks that they only do a few free gigs can think about the fact that there are others doing the same and you are affecting the lives of others who might not be so financially fortunate. It's a choice they made but, by playing for free, you may be removing that choice from them. I'm not judging, just passing on what has been told to me.

 

[treekiller]

"ASS, GAS, OR GRASS - NOBODY RIDES FOR FREE"

Unless it's for charity, if you wanna play for free do it in your buddy's basement - 'nuff said!!!

 

[SactoBass]

you can't be a diva if you are a man. a diva is a woman. men are called 'divo'.

just to clarify

LMAO! That was an excellent post!!

 

[jdwinva]

Do you ask for pay at your day job? I like being an IT Director, but hell if I'd do it for free. Music is no difference. Playing for free just undermines our value as musicians.

 

[sonofabass]

My humble 2 cents is that life is like chess, not checkers.
every move you make should be based on what you think you may be able to accomplish a few moves down the line.

There are some dues that I've paid that I refuse to pay again but by and large it truly depends on the situation. Likewise...I do think that guys who will just do anything for free really take the competitive edge out of a scene...

Hope that helps even a little.

 

[David Jayne]

Originals? Do whatever you want, wherever you want, as often as you want- I don't care.
Covers? Ask yourself why the bar has to pay ASCAP fees. And all the employees. But not you? Seems silly to me, but OK, if you must. But I won't.
Originals/Covers=Apples/Oranges.

OP: Not a diva. They bait-and-switched you.