Unless things have changed dramatically since I was in school, at the elementary level (as per the OP), they're generally all in one class, called English, including studying grammar by analyzing specific sentences from literature as well as studying literature.
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Am I racist?
- Thread starter MakiSupaStar
- Start date
Unless things have changed dramatically since I was in school, at the elementary level (as per the OP), they're generally all in one class, called English, including studying grammar by analyzing specific sentences from literature as well as studying literature.
the problem is not with the girl. at 13 when she says ax at home her parent or parents should recognize it and correct her. and since she is doing it at 13 the parents need some "correcting"
Unless things have changed dramatically since I was in elementary school - you never touch "literature" until you're well out of elementary school.
No, I specifically described the scenario where the repetition was chosen over efficiency in order to increase comprehension. Why do you think that public speakers use repetition so much ? Repetition builds credibility and it allows more pathways to understanding (even though they're really the same ones with slight variations). Not everyone comprehends ideas at the same rate, especially when they are complex, so we use repetition when efficiency doesn't work.
I'd like to see some credible support of the argument that Shakespeare's innovations were primarily motivated by "efficiency".
Have you ever read Shakespeare ? His works tend to be extraordinarily long. He always takes the scenic route. That's why he is routinely heavily edited for stage production. Efficiency and Shakespeare were not on close terms.
Nonsense.
What makes you think she wasn't in her neighborhood ? Do you know the OP personally ?
In any case, it makes perfect sense that a child in elementary school is going to have to deal with the challenges of knowing what is appropriate for the situation and won't start out being correct all of the time. No one is correct about that all of the time !
It all depends, don't it?
Y'all is a regional dialect 'expression' in southern parts of the US.
Ain't is often spoken by children in many regions of the US-that have learned/chosen a language shortcut, or more educated people
(including adults) that have chosen the slang term, when they utter the word.
teleharmonium said:
I guess it depends on the definition of literature...
What makes one collection of words literature?
)Please don't think I am being overly harsh: I'm am just talking as one human being to another.
-=IF=- you're job is one of being a TEACHER....toss her out on her butt and fail her. But do not EVER condescend or back-pedal! To TEACH that inappropriate power-plays in a scholastic setting have consequences (as they do in every diversified human interaction) is to stand your ground as an instructor. To do LESS is to communicate to the child that such venues have rewards rather than consequences. To do less than deal out the strictest consequences you are able is to dismiss your responsibility toward the child's education!
If she had called you STUPID, does that make you stupid? Why should the word make ANY difference what so ever?
It MAKES NO DIFFERENCE if she had said "you are a buffoon who concentrates on language rather than does what I demand"! Disrespect of that nature has consequences in all of life & you would be doing a great disservice to not let her have it NOW than when she finds out the reality of her manipulations when she tries that crap on someone who does not particularly care what the name is....
IF you are not a racist, why give a darn what she called you? IF it DOES hit you in a strange way that is a private concern of yours. But your responsibility as a teacher demands you maintain discipline in your classroom.
-=IF=- you're job is one of being a TEACHER....toss her out on her butt and fail her. But do not EVER condescend or back-pedal! To TEACH that inappropriate power-plays in a scholastic setting have consequences (as they do in every diversified human interaction) is to stand your ground as an instructor. To do LESS is to communicate to the child that such venues have rewards rather than consequences. To do less than deal out the strictest consequences you are able is to dismiss your responsibility toward the child's education!
If she had called you STUPID, does that make you stupid? Why should the word make ANY difference what so ever?
It MAKES NO DIFFERENCE if she had said "you are a buffoon who concentrates on language rather than does what I demand"! Disrespect of that nature has consequences in all of life & you would be doing a great disservice to not let her have it NOW than when she finds out the reality of her manipulations when she tries that crap on someone who does not particularly care what the name is....
IF you are not a racist, why give a darn what she called you? IF it DOES hit you in a strange way that is a private concern of yours. But your responsibility as a teacher demands you maintain discipline in your classroom.
If it increases comprehension - it's more efficient.
We're talking about efficiency IN COMMUNICATION - not efficiency in the physical act of speaking the words.
In the scenario you describe - the repetition is MORE efficient.
Because it is one of the most efficient ways to achieve their goals.
No we use repetition BECAUSE REPETITION IS MORE EFFICIENT.
If I say one word and don't effectively communicate it is LESS efficient than saying ten words and communicating effectively.
Shakespeare's goals - like all artists - is to communicate his ideas. The standard language of the time was incapable of carrying his artistic visions, so he had to invent language which could do so efficiently.
Efficiency isn't about the number of words - it's about the number of words combined with the effectiveness of those words in communication.
The fact that it happened in a school classroom... School != neighborhood.
No, but I'm willing to assume he isn't lying about it happening in a school classroom.
Of course not... and no one is above being corrected when they make mistakes either.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patois
Every black person in my city says "aks" instead of "ask" - some of them are highly intelligent and educated, and of all ages.
It's a cultural language difference. Would you correct someone's pronunciation or accent if they were from Poland or Italy etc? IMHO, it's like you criticised her accent, which is probably why she thought you were being rascist.
But, in response to the OP, I certainly don't think it was deliberate.
Every black person in my city says "aks" instead of "ask" - some of them are highly intelligent and educated, and of all ages.
It's a cultural language difference. Would you correct someone's pronunciation or accent if they were from Poland or Italy etc? IMHO, it's like you criticised her accent, which is probably why she thought you were being rascist.
But, in response to the OP, I certainly don't think it was deliberate.
Literature: Imaginative or creative writing, especially of recognized artistic value.
Let's just say in the elementary schools I attended - we didn't read much of anything that met that definition... and the few things we did we never analyzed the grammar.
It's funny you should say that because every white guy in my town puts his right sock or shoe on first then his left. Some of them are highly co-ordinated people, yet they have some inherent trait that demands them to place the same footwear that they have as a dominant element of their physical manipulation.
Yes to all of those. I waited table and did masonry construction all through 8 years of college. Reread my statements. Those are labor force jobs, and those folks aren't making a lot of money. The loose use of the English language is common in those areas, and perfectly acceptable. I hammed it up with the rest of them and had a blast. At the end of the day I was exausted and broke. It was great motivation for me to stay in school and make a better life for myself based on my desires for personal fulfillment. That others might not share my goals is fine, but if they expect to talk like a construction worker on his morning break while sitting at a conference table with other career-minded individuals, they're in for a rude awakening.
You are confusing slips and screw-ups as having poor English. GW Bush had a great education, and also had a good command of the English language. His many years in the business arena before becoming president was evident of that. What he didn't seem to do so well with was public speaking, or being put on the spot to say all the right things for political reasons. I'm just using him as an example, but don't mistake his frequent flubs as evidence of being able to make it in coroporate America without understanding how things work, and how one must talk, to be successful.
I do know many successful small-business owners who make good money who might not necessarily have the language skills I'm referring to. They typically own their own restaraunt, construction company, niche retail store, etc. That's not the kind of "business" person I'm talking about, and that's not the end result an educator has when correcting students in a classroom at 13 years old. The purpose of education is to prepare a child to reach their potential as they choose later in life.
To counter your question, do you live in an area where people are successful? Do you and your neighbors live in homes with multiple bedrooms, lush pools, several thousand square feet under heat/air? America is full of such neighborhoods, and most of those folks have well-paying jobs in business fields where they have to maintain a professional image. Language is critical to that. It is the real world, just as the low-income neighborhoods are. Which one a person stays in is largely determined by their use of language.
I likely wouldn't hire a person who said "axe" in an interview instead of "ask." It wouldn't be for racial reasons either. That would be a red flag to me that they have poor judgement in a situation, and don't realize the importance of words. I also wouldn't hire a person who said "ain't", or "Git 'er dun" just because it's silly and poor professionalism. But I've hired and worked with many blacks and country folks who still maintained their culture and backgrounds in a corporate environment.
If you could spend a week with me on the job, I think you'd understand what I'm trying to say.
Story time: We have a white employee who happens to be part of an interracial marriage and they have 3 children. I'm working on her computer and her daughter about 14 at the time start rambling off in the typical "urban dialect" or whatever PC term you can use for it , she paused and said to her daughter, "I'm not going to talk to you if you keep talking like a "N-bomb", I taught you English and you better speak it, don't you dare speak to me like an uneducated swine, you know better."
That is all I have to say about this thread.
People need to stop pulling the race card and using urban culture as an excuse and take responsibility for their own actions, sorry but that's the way it is.
That is all I have to say about this thread.
People need to stop pulling the race card and using urban culture as an excuse and take responsibility for their own actions, sorry but that's the way it is.
if ever there was a thread to NOT end a sentence with a preposition, this would be the one! such abuse of our noble language!!
people, please! your bad grammar is making it too hard for me to read your [DEL]bickering[/DEL], i mean, debate....
