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Am I taking this too seriously?
- Thread starter joe-in-the-warehouse
- Start date
I played with a guy several years ago; acoustic guitarist, wrote his own material. We were in high school band together, as it turns out; this was a few years after school. We would play some Saturdays at this old train depot in town, just for tips.
Covers were OK; he would play other people's songs they way they were recorded. But his songs... yeesh. Buckle up and hold on, fellas; it's gonna be a wild ride.
It lasted about a month. We discussed it a couple of times, how he should set a structure to the songs so they would be easier to follow. It never took.
This experience alone puts me firmly in the "move on" camp. I don't think you should have to struggle to make music.
Covers were OK; he would play other people's songs they way they were recorded. But his songs... yeesh. Buckle up and hold on, fellas; it's gonna be a wild ride.
It lasted about a month. We discussed it a couple of times, how he should set a structure to the songs so they would be easier to follow. It never took.
This experience alone puts me firmly in the "move on" camp. I don't think you should have to struggle to make music.
I'd certainly pass on this amateur hour "Artiste"
Feeling the urge to add another chorus when playing live or extending the guitar solo is one thing, but not playing your own songs consistently?
No way.
In fact I won't play with anybody's original song, unless they have taken the time to notate it in writing. Period. All the changes, and the song form and chords.
Feeling the urge to add another chorus when playing live or extending the guitar solo is one thing, but not playing your own songs consistently?
No way.
In fact I won't play with anybody's original song, unless they have taken the time to notate it in writing. Period. All the changes, and the song form and chords.
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Solo performers, in some cases, have little sense of meter, rhythm, tempo, etc. No so obvious at first but stick 'em in an ensemble setting and watch the chaos ensue.
Riis
If you're worried that people will think less of your musical abilities because of you playing with her, don't fret.
I found myself in a similar situation a few years back. Only that i faced a guitar player AND a drummer. Those guys have been housemates and best buddies for the last few decades and they've been playing together for even longer. As a trio, that was kind of cool, because i had loads of freedom and could play whatever i liked. They dig my style and never complained even once about anything i did. We played a few small gigs and some of the musicians that attended chatted to me after these gigs. They felt that my ablities on the bass exceeded those of the other instruments by no small measure. They might have been frowning on the band's total output, but not at my bit.
The fun started when we took in another guitar. This guy was blown away by the way these arrangements - or rather the total lack of them - worked. I worked out the cues for the changes over the time but found myself at a total loss trying to explain them to the guitar player, because sometimes you just had to repeat that part and sniff out the tension that would build up between the guitar and drums.
So the second guitar and me set out to tidy up that mess and while progress is slow, it is there. The new material shows much more structure and we drag along the others by staying in the scheme.
This can be done but it is a lot of work to do. Find a drummer willing to do this and you might have a good time.
I found myself in a similar situation a few years back. Only that i faced a guitar player AND a drummer. Those guys have been housemates and best buddies for the last few decades and they've been playing together for even longer. As a trio, that was kind of cool, because i had loads of freedom and could play whatever i liked. They dig my style and never complained even once about anything i did. We played a few small gigs and some of the musicians that attended chatted to me after these gigs. They felt that my ablities on the bass exceeded those of the other instruments by no small measure. They might have been frowning on the band's total output, but not at my bit.
The fun started when we took in another guitar. This guy was blown away by the way these arrangements - or rather the total lack of them - worked. I worked out the cues for the changes over the time but found myself at a total loss trying to explain them to the guitar player, because sometimes you just had to repeat that part and sniff out the tension that would build up between the guitar and drums.
So the second guitar and me set out to tidy up that mess and while progress is slow, it is there. The new material shows much more structure and we drag along the others by staying in the scheme.
This can be done but it is a lot of work to do. Find a drummer willing to do this and you might have a good time.
I've noticed that some "free spirits" like the idea of doing things how they feel, and letting it "come naturally." When they do that, the way that feels "natural" for them doesn't seem to change much. So while they think that they're being a free spirit with nothing set in stone, they actually have a structure to it that comes naturally, but stays the same. This may or may not be the case for you, but if it is, you can use it to help back your argument.
She may be a free spirit. She may also be too lazy to put in the effort - kinda like that cover band who puts their own "spin" on things rather than learn it correctly. If she's unwilling to even play the same song the same way twice in a row, I'd say it's time to move on. Unstructured is one thing, unwilling is a completely different animal.
If you're enjoying the ride, no harm no foul. It would drive me bananas.
If you're enjoying the ride, no harm no foul. It would drive me bananas.
I wonder how many drummers, bassists, etc., said the same thing to Herman Blount?
Most people like that will never change, but most is not all. If this guitarist hasn't really played music with anyone else before, she might not be a lost cause. Drummers who've never played with a metronome can learn to, pianists who are used to throwing in expressive rubato whenever they want can learn to stop that when they're not playing alone, bassists can learn to follow a conductor etc.
I would take the recording suggestion to let her lay down the tracks and then come in after and put your stuff down. She has to understand that once you guys get involved, no changes.
As far as live, work out some signals with her about when she's going to move on in the arrangement. That's what most jam bands do, isn't it?
Communication is the key.
As far as live, work out some signals with her about when she's going to move on in the arrangement. That's what most jam bands do, isn't it?
Communication is the key.
- Oct 7, 2000
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- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
Wow, how am I the first to state the most obvious... if you want our help, that is?
1. Post a picture.
2. Post a music clip.
Then we can much better advise you.
I'm really curious. What is it that has you attracted to this person? If she can't sing, and she can't play coherently... why are you so committed to making it work?
If you remain as determined as you are, then I think either she has to learn and change her ways, or you have to start considering it an avante garde type thing. If there was a good reason for me to remain committed to a project like you describe (I see none yet in what you've presented), I would play minimally till I really got the hang of how she operates, and then I'd get as creative as I possibly could aroun whatever it is she does. It could actually be an awesome thing, but honestly, it's not sounding that way from what you describe. And if the recordings are your main concern right now, I agree with the others. Have her play, then record around that. Or even better yet, duh!... I just realized... have her record the song, and tell her she's going to have to lay down a 2nd guitar track
. Let her have a go at working with herself. Maybe she'll see things differently.
1. Post a picture.
2. Post a music clip.
Then we can much better advise you.
I'm really curious. What is it that has you attracted to this person? If she can't sing, and she can't play coherently... why are you so committed to making it work?
If you remain as determined as you are, then I think either she has to learn and change her ways, or you have to start considering it an avante garde type thing. If there was a good reason for me to remain committed to a project like you describe (I see none yet in what you've presented), I would play minimally till I really got the hang of how she operates, and then I'd get as creative as I possibly could aroun whatever it is she does. It could actually be an awesome thing, but honestly, it's not sounding that way from what you describe. And if the recordings are your main concern right now, I agree with the others. Have her play, then record around that. Or even better yet, duh!... I just realized... have her record the song, and tell her she's going to have to lay down a 2nd guitar track
. Let her have a go at working with herself. Maybe she'll see things differently.
I have been on both sides of this. When I was younger, I mostly worked on writing riffs and stuff. Back then as a song writer, and I use that term very loosely, I had the same issue. I never played the same series, and other musicians had the same issue with me. Then, several years later, I joined a band as a guitarist, and the drummer and bass player were all over the place. I tried to get them into some sort of pattern, but as soon as you lock in, they would change it... I eventually would either come up with something that fit, or, out of frustration, just hammer a single chord until they got into a rhythm I could lock into or solo or do other stuff over.
I got out of music for health reason for few years, now I am in a cover band, and I did that so I could learn how other musicians and songwriters fit things into a pattern, and how those patterns are morphed, etc.
I would say, go ahead and record, knowing what you will be doing isn't going to be perfect. Let her record her stuff, and fit around that. If that is something you don't want to do, then bail. At the same time, maybe come up with some of your own stuff that represents a more regular pattern, and get her to fit something into that.
I got out of music for health reason for few years, now I am in a cover band, and I did that so I could learn how other musicians and songwriters fit things into a pattern, and how those patterns are morphed, etc.
I would say, go ahead and record, knowing what you will be doing isn't going to be perfect. Let her record her stuff, and fit around that. If that is something you don't want to do, then bail. At the same time, maybe come up with some of your own stuff that represents a more regular pattern, and get her to fit something into that.
Music only works if people are on the same page, otherwise it is noise. That's why Western musicians developed such a thoroughly thought out music notation system that allows an entire orchestra to play together. Some cultures play by ear, but are rarely as complex as European classical.
If you are getting anything out of playing with this person stick with it since its just more experience. However, if it is frustrating in anyway or isn't satisfying why bother sticking around? Informal or not, if it causes problems and isn't enjoyable why make your life difficult?
If you are getting anything out of playing with this person stick with it since its just more experience. However, if it is frustrating in anyway or isn't satisfying why bother sticking around? Informal or not, if it causes problems and isn't enjoyable why make your life difficult?
If I were to be in a musical situation such as this (MAKING NO MONEY), I'd bail, and take the drummer with me, and maybe start a Gorky Park tribute band.
I have a buddy who is exactly like this that I jam with on occasion. I can follow, but it's annoying. He wants to record but I politely declined contributing.
When something is a challenge not because of the depth of the material but rather the short-comings of the other musicians I consider that a non-opportunity.
When something is a challenge not because of the depth of the material but rather the short-comings of the other musicians I consider that a non-opportunity.
- Jun 9, 2013
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- Bacchus / STR Endorsing Artist and direct Dealer of new and used MIJ Brands.
If she wants to play and record, she needs to show dedication to her craft. No practice = no improvement...no go. Simple. You can't have a noob hold you back, and if she's hot, well she'll probably dig your authoritarian approach and you can teach her meter and how to write music in your own imaginative way... heh heh 
If she refuses that then I'd suggest a good teacher to her, say something along the lines of, "Hey. I like your songs, there is a lot of potential here, you have real talent and if you worked on this and had someone coach you, you could really shine" Appeal to the ego! If that doesn't work then screw her (metaphorically speaking, or otherwise).
If she refuses that then I'd suggest a good teacher to her, say something along the lines of, "Hey. I like your songs, there is a lot of potential here, you have real talent and if you worked on this and had someone coach you, you could really shine" Appeal to the ego! If that doesn't work then screw her (metaphorically speaking, or otherwise).
Sometimes people who don't follow the rules are the most interesting. Why move on unless you really hate it? You can still work with other people. Work with as many, and all types as possible.
