- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
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Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread
- Thread starter ttasselm
- Start date
The new XPO sounds great. I just don't need or want another oscillator ATM. If I did, I think I'd lean towards Bastl Pizza. Which I also don't need.
I really enjoyed both records yesterday, for completely different reasons. @lordradish I can really hear the Martin Sturtzer influence on the synth programming -- there's a "clean ambient" vibe. But the bass playing very much takes it in your own direction. I am going to be very curious to hear how your promotional campaign goes. I am thinking about some of the same things for upcoming releases.
@steubig -- to me this sounded like modern classical, probably because of the samples. I'm curious when you say it was more involved. Did you actually, you know, compose for this one?
I will be listening to both of them again.
I really enjoyed both records yesterday, for completely different reasons. @lordradish I can really hear the Martin Sturtzer influence on the synth programming -- there's a "clean ambient" vibe. But the bass playing very much takes it in your own direction. I am going to be very curious to hear how your promotional campaign goes. I am thinking about some of the same things for upcoming releases.
@steubig -- to me this sounded like modern classical, probably because of the samples. I'm curious when you say it was more involved. Did you actually, you know, compose for this one?
I will be listening to both of them again.
Next possible gig on the table:
Experimental sludge/doom in A standard on fretless.
Das low bruh!!!!!
.135 low string here we come
Experimental sludge/doom in A standard on fretless.
Das low bruh!!!!!
.135 low string here we come
hi, first, thanks for listening.
yeah, for good or bad, the orchestra samples really take it toward "classical" (though some of the "choral" sounds are hydrasynth and some "percussion" is actually modular stuff), but i think it's also because the thematic material sounds (to my ear) very post-romantic/early 20th-century. and my goal *was* to do that along with "just sound."
"compose" is a weird word for me, as i can consider "composition" to be very much a pencil, paper and eraser sort of thing. this has some jotted down notes—harmonies, but not the themes, which i worked out, learned to play and then recorded (finally—i can't play keys!). i consider what i do to be more like assembly.
that being said, if you consider large-scale, multi-part form with contrasting sections, theme, counter-theme and counterpoint, etc., to be composition, then this does have a lot of compositional elements. basically, i would get ideas, work them out, play and record them, and then get to work editing, organizing, mangling, etc., into the whole.
tmi starts
. . .in terms of "more involved": the sheer amount of hours (pulling numerous 9-hour days per piece [i guess it's good when the money work dries up for a while?]), complexity of form (anam 01: I, A1, B, A2, C, I, A1, B, D, I, A2, E; anam 02: A1+2, B, A1, I, C/B, A2, I, A1, 1/2C, A2, Coda) and tracks/parts (anam 01: 34 [20 stereo pairs]; anam 02: 32 [21 stereo pairs]), tons of tweaking.
so, if you follow the metaphor, this stuff was more novelistic while a lot of my other stuff would be short stories or novellas (or, perhaps, large-scale canvas vs. line drawings, small paintings) . . . so "more involved"
the screened-back pics on the front are screen shots of the ableton arrangement view that i mangled in photoshop.
sorry if this is overlong, your question made me think about (and want to explain) why i used that term.
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Nah, never apologize for explaining a process, it's valuable both for the explainee and the explainer.
Those folks that say "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture" can suck eggs; I'm here for the discourse!
+1. thanks for your explanation @steubig ! I love hearing about process.
It's been a few days since I've annoyed you guys with my experimentation...
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
As I feel like I'm starting to understand modular/eurorack a bit better, I'm going from "how do all these weird things work?" to "how do I integrate the bass guitar with all these weird things?" I'd love to hear thoughts from everyone (whether eurorack users or not) about how you approach integrating the bass with synth stuff. Not mechanically like what pedals/etc you use (though that info is always welcome), but almost more philosophically.
I’m probably the person on here that integrates the less my bass in my weirdo crap.
Unless it’s my solo bass album…..y’a I know go figure…..
I’ve been uncannily busy with “normal” bass gigs and such the last 6 to 8 months that my solo basement mad scientist stuff has taken a back seat atm. The itch is there to back and not see the sun for a few weeks.
Happy to answer any questions one might have. Whether it be philosophical or technical.
Also the band in my link is quite perticular.
Me on bass dual rig and samples
we are a trio
all takes a 100% live except the vocals
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I like it!
For me the DAW was already the hub. In my modular case I have a BoredBrain Optx and a Mazzatron Mult+PassThru with a custom snake cable "permanently" plugged into my audio interface, so patching stuff to and from the DAW is just another patch cable. Other synth gear (really just the Minibrute 2S now) has dedicated inputs on the interface.
So to bring bass into that world, I designated a front panel input on my interface as the bass input, and I just plug in there. If I want to process it through Eurorack, in Bitwig I'll either use the Hardware FX device or the Grid to route audio to one of the Optx outputs. (There's a trivial amount of extra latency, but that's fine with me.)
Since I also wanted to control synths and FX with the bass, I tried a few options and settled on JamOrigin Bass To MIDI. From there, I can convert MIDI pitch (and aftertouch, which is an envelope follower) to "virtual CV" in Bitwig Grid and real CV by routing it to an output.
As far as the creative aspects of it goes, that's always going to be a work in progress. Generally though, my music tends to have some combination of:
- drone parts (sometimes with transpose switches)
- looping sequence / algorithmic parts
- a looped sample (which could be either one of the above). Using Bitwig Grid I'll often send triggers that are synchronized to the loop length, to clock modular sequencers/delays/etc.
- manually played parts.
These might be developed in any order. A drone first and then everything else adapts to that if I don't want to retune it, or finding a riff/set of notes I like and everything else gets tuned to match it.
Aside from looping (which is often kind of an accidental byproduct that I take advantage of), I tend to do stuff as one-take recordings of the full mix.
Bass parts usually fall under "manually played parts" but a couple times I've made loops from it, or done both.
Really enjoyed your drone! I feel like this thread is turning into some kind of negative dark ambient label.
I honestly don't combine bass and synth a lot. For me it's mostly one or the other. BUT, some things I've learned along the way:
I've got an old Pulp Logic Entry Point. The BoredBrain looks like the best option for currently available if you want to run your bass into your synth. You want something that can also output an envelope as well as the sound.
A comparator can give you a pitched square wave from your bass signal which can be further processed.
OR you can send your bass signal into the input of a clocked LFO if the LFO will go to audio rate, and then you can control any wave the LFO can produce.
I am not a huge fan of the bass's envelope for a pitched synth sound. I'd rather use the synth's envelopes. But an envelope follower can be great fun. I once ran an inverted envelope into the feedback control of my Echophon and that was a blast. I stop playing, a wash of feedback. Start playing, it gets tamer. Super fun.
Don't forget that any signal in a synth is a control signal. So pitch is useful too! Mult your pitch into the mix of a time-based effect and as you play higher, the sound gets wetter.
Obviously VCAs and attenuators are your friend for any of this.
These days, I tend to use a Linnstrument for pitched note entry into the synth. It also can put out a few other control signals that are useful. The Expert Sleepers FH-2 plays very nicely with it.
I honestly don't combine bass and synth a lot. For me it's mostly one or the other. BUT, some things I've learned along the way:
I've got an old Pulp Logic Entry Point. The BoredBrain looks like the best option for currently available if you want to run your bass into your synth. You want something that can also output an envelope as well as the sound.
A comparator can give you a pitched square wave from your bass signal which can be further processed.
OR you can send your bass signal into the input of a clocked LFO if the LFO will go to audio rate, and then you can control any wave the LFO can produce.
I am not a huge fan of the bass's envelope for a pitched synth sound. I'd rather use the synth's envelopes. But an envelope follower can be great fun. I once ran an inverted envelope into the feedback control of my Echophon and that was a blast. I stop playing, a wash of feedback. Start playing, it gets tamer. Super fun.
Don't forget that any signal in a synth is a control signal. So pitch is useful too! Mult your pitch into the mix of a time-based effect and as you play higher, the sound gets wetter.
Obviously VCAs and attenuators are your friend for any of this.
These days, I tend to use a Linnstrument for pitched note entry into the synth. It also can put out a few other control signals that are useful. The Expert Sleepers FH-2 plays very nicely with it.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I use a Boredbrain module to run bass into my eurorack as well. Love that module
This made me think. That could be dangerous, but in this case I think it's good.
Bass can be such a lonely instrument. Great if you have friends to play with, but by yourself? Moogerfoogers were my gateway drug - realizing that I could play a Moog synth (first Micromoog, then Rogue) with my childhood piano skills was exciting. Hearing the Dark Side of the Moog stuff with Pete Namlook & Klaus Schulze got me searching for a way to make music that I could also play bass with. Hearing Zombi (on CD) around 2006 was also inspiring - it seemed possible to do some cool stuff with limited voices. Got a sequencer but never got to far with it; never figured out the drum machine thing either. The DFAM/Subharmonicon combo finally brought it potentially more in reach.
In this setup, the bass guitar becomes another voice, and figuring out how to interact with the other voices is part of the puzzle. Will it be the lead voice? Will it just be over the top of the other things or more integrated somehow. Realizing I could use the CV from an envelope or even just a trigger was fun, it makes it a controller as much as a stringed instrument.
Actually, that gives me an idea. I've been wanting to record my doubleneck, playing the 34" fretless neck, but having the pickups on the Bass VI side on, picking up the sympathetic vibrations. Chris Squire did that at the end of his Fish Out of Water album (I only know because he mentions it in the interview in one of the anniversary editions). But I could also run it through an envelope and have that envelope control something like filter frequency or phaser frequency. It might be too subtle but it could be interesting. Cool, another project! Well, the sympathetic vibration thing has been on my list, but this exercise revealed another option that could take it further.
Sorry, I'm starting to ramble, but didn't someone mention Brian Eno recently? I was listening to the song Heroes the other day - not the first time, but the first really listening, and also read up on the recording a bit. So cool how they recorded the long sustained notes from Robert Fripp, then Brian Eno manipulates it with his synth (EMS?) - you don't need to know what they did for it to sound cool, but it's even better knowing what went into it!
Sorry, one more thing - (I figured I'd make it a separate post) - I was listening to Steve Moore's Light Echoes and the liner notes have a nice riff on performing live with synths:
Previously, in trying to translate his analog adventures to the stage, he encountered an obstacle that turned out to be a blessing in disguise. “After a couple years of awkward, laptop-driven live sets, I realized I was doing it wrong,” Moore explains. “I was looking at these shows only from my perspective, too concerned with how I could re-produce my songs live to realize that these songs didn’t work in a live setting anyway. I thought about what I, as a member of the audience, would enjoy, and came to the conclusion that ‘songs’ are basically the last thing I want to hear when I see a guy bring a bunch of synthesizers on stage. I want to hear sounds. I want to hear what those synthesizers can do. Which brings us to this new album.”
Previously, in trying to translate his analog adventures to the stage, he encountered an obstacle that turned out to be a blessing in disguise. “After a couple years of awkward, laptop-driven live sets, I realized I was doing it wrong,” Moore explains. “I was looking at these shows only from my perspective, too concerned with how I could re-produce my songs live to realize that these songs didn’t work in a live setting anyway. I thought about what I, as a member of the audience, would enjoy, and came to the conclusion that ‘songs’ are basically the last thing I want to hear when I see a guy bring a bunch of synthesizers on stage. I want to hear sounds. I want to hear what those synthesizers can do. Which brings us to this new album.”
Went to a light show thing that was held in the botanical gardens in my city Adelaide… was pretty epic mainly for the ambient soundscapes amongst all of the 8 or so static displays / experiences. Only recorded one small video but don’t know how I can upload it unless I create a new YouTube account as my old one is lost to how to login.
I put it on my Facebook and one of my friends commented it was like a tool concert pre show. Which sounds like a tool thing to do, make you walk through random dark areas and light shows / soundscapes before you get to them haha
I put it on my Facebook and one of my friends commented it was like a tool concert pre show. Which sounds like a tool thing to do, make you walk through random dark areas and light shows / soundscapes before you get to them haha
