Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[RyanKinBK]

well jamerson was fingers and came from upright; kaye was pick and came from jazz guitar.

[fwiw, a web search on kaye's strings: What kind of strings have you always used? A. I've always used medium-gauge flatwound strings since I play exclusively with a hard pick (with a flat wrist, not like guitar players).

Fwiw, I studied with Carol for a while back in the late 90s, and she turned me on to TI Jazz Flats, which is what she was using at the time. Not sure how long she had been using them at that point, nor how long she continued to use them.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

i started working on this stuff cause i heard trumpet player arve henriksen doing this half-breath stuff on trumpet, then there are saxophonists who put little popped notes into passages.(and then there are a bunch of upright players doing extended technique . . . )

anyway, i was trying to get some of arve's thing going on bass (which is pretty much both impossible and stupid) and i started doing this stuff. as i went along i kind of came up with two variations on it.

the idea is to have varying pressure on the fingerings.

the first is pressing just a little bit less that normal, but the strings are not hitting the fingerboard. it sounds a bit like harmonics, but you do it on non-harmonic nodes.

the second is pressing on the string even less, so it become less pitch oriented and more percussive. it's probably a bit like ghosted notes, but it think it has more pitch content.

the plucking hand has to attack the strings pretty hard to get the effect (almost choking the strings).

anyway my hope is to get some different timbres and articulations out of the bass.

not sure it'll sound like much to any of you all and it's not necessarily gonna speak in most band situations, so figuring out where to put it is a challenge (though the stuff i do a lot has space for it).

caveat, the newer slightly heavier strings haven't quite gotten to where i need them to be.

all just going into amp, recorded to abelton, raw.

first bit is on the lower strings, alternating the different pressures for show and tell purposes.
second bit is higher strings trying, same deal, but a little more melodic (?)
third bit is sort of a groove plus freakout (the clicky stuff is me using a slightly longer nail on my rings hand).


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Ok, now that sounds freakin dope.
The fact you can do a “half fingered” note , get said half\note\harmonic and then actually get a good vibrato articulation with the left hand if effin impressive.
Parts sound even like a plucked piano or muffled kalimba. Very musical textures.

Re: trumpet player inspiration
I love it when trumpet players intentionally muffle and play half attacked notes that squeak.
Sometimes adding lot’s of air in the process.
Erik Truffaz does this quite nicely. I think a dude named Miles did that also

 

[lordradish]

Anyone else here never change strings? My basses strings haven't been changed for years. Every now and then I change them and then hate my bass until that zing goes away. Even guitar strings I never change but eventually those get changed.

Oh, god, no. I hate that sound.

 

[lordradish]

i started working on this stuff cause i heard trumpet player arve henriksen doing this half-breath stuff on trumpet, then there are saxophonists who put little popped notes into passages.(and then there are a bunch of upright players doing extended technique . . . )

anyway, i was trying to get some of arve's thing going on bass (which is pretty much both impossible and stupid) and i started doing this stuff. as i went along i kind of came up with two variations on it.

the idea is to have varying pressure on the fingerings.

the first is pressing just a little bit less that normal, but the strings are not hitting the fingerboard. it sounds a bit like harmonics, but you do it on non-harmonic nodes.

the second is pressing on the string even less, so it become less pitch oriented and more percussive. it's probably a bit like ghosted notes, but it think it has more pitch content.

the plucking hand has to attack the strings pretty hard to get the effect (almost choking the strings).

anyway my hope is to get some different timbres and articulations out of the bass.

not sure it'll sound like much to any of you all and it's not necessarily gonna speak in most band situations, so figuring out where to put it is a challenge (though the stuff i do a lot has space for it).

caveat, the newer slightly heavier strings haven't quite gotten to where i need them to be.

all just going into amp, recorded to abelton, raw.

first bit is on the lower strings, alternating the different pressures for show and tell purposes.
second bit is higher strings trying, same deal, but a little more melodic (?)
third bit is sort of a groove plus freakout (the clicky stuff is me using a slightly longer nail on my rings hand).


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OH, SO YOU'RE PERCY JONES NOW, HUH?

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

OH, SO YOU'RE PERCY JONES NOW, HUH?

But does steubig use the floating left hand thumb like upright dudes?

Seriously, Percy is an alien.
Not exactly my cup-o-tea, but his talent is freakin scary and undeniably mutant.
like.

Didn’t he do stuff with Eno??
Or am I having old dad brain?

 

[JES]

Thanks @steubig The groove is really cool! The ambient/textural thread: come for the weirdo gear and music discussion, stay for weirdo technique....

 

[steubig]

But does steubig use the floating left hand thumb like upright dudes?

the answer is a qualified yes.

i’ve done stuff where there’s a lot of high muted notes over/near the pickups using fingers 1-4, while dropping notes in with thumb can be one-offs or little lines. gets an antiphonal quality.

this is stuff inspired by barry guy.

 

[steubig]

Thanks @steubig The groove is really cool! The ambient/textural thread: come for the weirdo gear and music discussion, stay for weirdo technique....

well, it’s also “post-rock” and i’ve suggested “post-jazz.”

this stuff sort of falls under the extended-technique category, which can be useful in all the above, imo.

 

[steubig]

OH, SO YOU'RE PERCY JONES NOW, HUH?

never thought of it that way. i never loved his sound when i heard him back in the day.

does he do that?

there are so many people who did things long ago that i never knew about …

 

[steubig]

Ok, now that sounds freakin dope.
The fact you can do a “half fingered” note , get said half\note\harmonic and then actually get a good vibrato articulation with the left hand if effin impressive.
Parts sound even like a plucked piano or muffled kalimba. Very musical textures.

Re: trumpet player inspiration
I love it when trumpet players intentionally muffle and play half attacked notes that squeak.
Sometimes adding lot’s of air in the process.
Erik Truffaz does this quite nicely. I think a dude named Miles did that also

thanks.

the ring finger nail thing was directly influenced by miles.

 

[steubig]

btw, in my mind, “texture” is not just smooth and gauzy; it can rough and gnarly too.

stucco, sand paper, silk and chocolate pudding all have texture.

 

[steubig]

That's really nice work, @steubig !
That inspired me to try similar things. I also tried those half fingerings with double stops. I also got carried away with some different techniques, like drumming the strings near the bridge for getting this attackles sound and playing drone string with this flicking kind of motion. I don't know if these are commonly used techniques or not.
I used short scale, Harley Benton Beatbass and G-lab Rebel Chaos Drive and Quiver Reverb, straight into my audio interface.

cool. i think it’s a bit harder for me to get what i want from these techniques using a fretted bass. i need to pay more attention to the depth of the pressure vs. the fret height.

exploration seems good to me. “carried away” or searching for sounds you want ti hear?

i almost did some double-stops for the “demo,” but it seemed like i went in too long as it was.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

cool. i think it’s a bit harder for me to get what i want from these techniques using a fretted bass. i need to pay more attention to the depth of the pressure vs. the fret height.

exploration seems good to me. “carried away” or searching for sounds you want ti hear?

i almost did some double-stops for the “demo,” but it seemed like i went in too long as it was.

Been there.
On fretted. Its wayyyyyyy harder to pull off those little subtle articulations.
Tried years ago doing Mingus stuff on 4 string fretted electric. (Kind of like on the Money Jungle album with Roach and Ellington)

I gave up, I should get a fretless again someday. Solld my last one about 15 years ago since I did alot of sight reading and it was unused for a long time.

One of the most uncomfortable situations in my school music life was bringing my fretless for big band practice. I assumed we would rehearse all the "usual" songs.
How wrong I was, we jammed one song then tried new songs for the nexr 2 hours.
The pain, everyone looked at me as I was struggling to read and barely stay in tune.
I got owned bad the evening.
Added insult, the big band teacher was also my bass teacher. He rode my @$$ hard.

 

[steubig]

Been there.
On fretted. Its wayyyyyyy harder to pull off those little subtle articulations.
I gave up, I should get a fretless.....someday. sold my last one since I did alot of sight reading and it was unused for a long time.
Tried years ago doing Mingus stuff on 4 string fretted electric.

yeah. mingus on fretted would be a challenge. (it’s a challenge on anything because mingus was seriously badass.)

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

yeah. mingus on fretted would be a challenge. (it’s a challenge on anything because mingus was seriously badass.)

Ohhhh yeah, you don't really realize how epic mutant good Mingus is until you try a little bit of his lines.
Ouch.....!!!!! The sheer power and ears that man had. Once in a generation kind of stuff.

 

[emjazz]

I came here for the convo and am never disappointed...extended techniques, Miles, Mingus, Money Jungle, "post jazz"....I'm in. Thanks all. I love it.

 

[JES]

well, it’s also “post-rock” and i’ve suggested “post-jazz.”

this stuff sort of falls under the extended-technique category, which can be useful in all the above, imo.

I wrote “extended” originally and then backspaced and typed “weirdo” for symmetry. And agreed.

 

[emjazz]

I keep trying to get rid of basses that I'm not using...and then I plug them in and they sound beautiful and inspire new ideas...this isn't going as planned...hahaha.

@steubig ...and anyone else who this may concern.....I still have basses here for future music that's for other people...like a P bass and a short scale 4 string...but I don't foresee them being used in my own creative pursuits. Does anyone else keep basses around "just in case"? Makes me crazy to have basses just sitting around "just in case", but I'm sure when the world gets back to live music I'll be using them. I grew up admiring bass players that basically used one bass for everything (Jaco, Jimmy Johnson, John Patittucci in the early days, Anthony Jackson)....but these days it seems people want options. The further I get away from "groove" playing, the more I realize the P Bass or the short scale 4 may hardly see the light of day.

 

[JES]

At some point my wife read that thing Steve Albini wrote about never getting rid of gear, and is reluctant for me to sell basses. I have an old precision fretless that was my main instrument for about 10 years but that I no longer use, but also sounds amazing and has tremendous sentimental value. Ditto for my first bass, an Ibanez Roadstar II. I'm sure there are others lying in wait. I get emotionally attached. Pedals, OTOH, can come and go.

 

[steubig]

Ohhhh yeah, you don't really realize how epic mutant good Mingus is until you try a little bit of his lines.
Ouch.....!!!!! The sheer power and ears that man had. Once in a generation kind of stuff.

serious genius shizz. beyond generational in my book. playing and writing.