hahaha.
my pyramid strings are flat . . . like the earth.
my pyramid strings are flat . . . like the earth.
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Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread
- Thread starter ttasselm
- Start date
I started off a black beauties fan... then switched to elixirs... but for whatever sake went back to the dr Red Devils last string change. I know the colour comes off easy but seem to stay slightly brighter than elixirs and still feel decent. I’ve always preferred coated *shrug* casual player though so ymmv etc 
I don't know why I continue to think Jamerson played with a pick, even though I've been told this a thousand times, I think I kept mixing him up with Kaye.
Flats, unless I'm throwing them on a Fender to play some old school, are something that's never interested me, tonally.
That said, I would really like lower tension strings on the 6 string. The action's good, but it does feel tenser, somewhat, than my other basses. Do your 6 ers feel no different?
One thing to consider is that lower tension strings will feel relatively stiffer (perceived tension vs. actual tension) the shorter the scale length of the instrument and higher tension strings will feel relatively more flexible the longer scale the instrument.
Trust me I know this from having played a wide variety of different scaled basses.
Think of it this way: If you lay a wooden stick of a given thickness across two raised points like a bridge the longer the two points are apart the less force it will require to bend the stick on the middle, which is true in reverse as well, the closer the two raised points are set from each other (the shorter the span) the more force it will require of you to bend the stick on the middle.
Which is also why you usually would want guitar strings to be much lower tension than bass strings, or why you would want baritone guitar strings to be higher tension than guitar strings, but still lower than on a full scale bass.
For some reason this often gets overlooked when people are talking string gauges and short scale basses.
Yes, the strings will be lower tension, but relatively they won't feel as floppy as strings with the same tension on a regular scaled bass.
Also thicker gauge strings will feel relatively stiffer, regardless of actual tension, on a shorter scale compared to a longer scale and quickly get quite thuddy when playing them as you go up the board (shortening the span of the vibrating tone producing length of the string more and more, making them less and less flexible, referring to my stick bridge analogy), which is another reason you would want to watch out for not putting too thick strings on them, thinking that you need the same tension as a regular scaled bass.
Trust me I know this from having played a wide variety of different scaled basses.
Think of it this way: If you lay a wooden stick of a given thickness across two raised points like a bridge the longer the two points are apart the less force it will require to bend the stick on the middle, which is true in reverse as well, the closer the two raised points are set from each other (the shorter the span) the more force it will require of you to bend the stick on the middle.
Which is also why you usually would want guitar strings to be much lower tension than bass strings, or why you would want baritone guitar strings to be higher tension than guitar strings, but still lower than on a full scale bass.
For some reason this often gets overlooked when people are talking string gauges and short scale basses.
Yes, the strings will be lower tension, but relatively they won't feel as floppy as strings with the same tension on a regular scaled bass.
Also thicker gauge strings will feel relatively stiffer, regardless of actual tension, on a shorter scale compared to a longer scale and quickly get quite thuddy when playing them as you go up the board (shortening the span of the vibrating tone producing length of the string more and more, making them less and less flexible, referring to my stick bridge analogy), which is another reason you would want to watch out for not putting too thick strings on them, thinking that you need the same tension as a regular scaled bass.
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So, would you say lighter than usual for an 18" scale bass?
How much does tension affect tone?
@NoiseNinja interesting points about the scale. i only play 34-inch scale, so this is out of my experience. i did play matt garrison's 30.75-inch scale bass. the strings felt very pliable, i wish i knew what he strung it with.
@lordradish imo, the lower tension makes the note sounds more relaxed. i love flats on 6-string basses. one thing i really like is more fundamental (and less sizzle) for single notes—and especially for chords. for me, there are so many things that go into the bass "feeling right" for me: nut height, neck relief, bridge height, angle of the neck to the body. i'm a real tweaker . . .
@lordradish imo, the lower tension makes the note sounds more relaxed. i love flats on 6-string basses. one thing i really like is more fundamental (and less sizzle) for single notes—and especially for chords. for me, there are so many things that go into the bass "feeling right" for me: nut height, neck relief, bridge height, angle of the neck to the body. i'm a real tweaker . . .
Not lighter than you would put on a regular scaled bass, but lower tension, since using the same tuning and the same string gauge already automatically will result in lower tension on the shorter scale (but higher perceived tension/increased rigidness relatively to the actual tension and string gauge in comparison to a longer scaled bass), but lighter than you perhaps would think is required to get it to feel right and not too floppy.
And as it already has been said, lower tension means less harmonic content and more fundamentals, but on the other hand lighter gauge strings, compared to heavier gauge strings at the same tension, will produce more harmonics and less fundamental content, so it's really about finding the right balance between gauge and tension to get it right.
Also at a certain point if the tension becomes too high it will effect the flexibility of the string preventing it the from vibrating properly, resulting in a somewhat dead or percussive tone, which is exactly what contribute to the thud/staccato sound on shorter scale basses with a too thick gauge low E string (assuming you tune it in E standard of course) when fretted at the upper end of the fretboard, because the vibrating length of the string on a shorter scaled instrument obviously is shorter, so up the fretboard where it gets even shorter a too thick string will become too rigid to vibrate properly (again referring to my stick analogy: the fact that strings with the same tension and of the same gauge will be less flexible/more rigid the shorter the scale length of the bass, aka vibrating length, and therefor perceived as if they have higher tension than they actually do).
So string tension is string tension regardless, but the perceived tension and actual rigidness/flexibility of the strings is determined by a relationship between string gauge, tension and scale length/vibrating length.
As an example an individual string pull/tension of about 30lbs feels pretty tight, but still quite reasonable, on my 28,6" scale bass, whereas the same individual string tension on my regular 34" scale bass feels just on the edge of being too floppy, but still acceptable, with this kind of individual string tension resulting in something like string bending and vibrato feeling really effortless on the 34" scale but me needing to put a bit of force into it and being a bit more of a struggle on the 28,6" scale.
This is an excellent tool to calculate the string tension in relation to scale length, tuning and string gauge : String Tension Pro
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I'm thinking, since I also use an ebow, the lower tension would certainly be a plus, here.
the ebow is also geared toward the mass of guitar strings, so it can’t really drive a heavier string without a nudge. imo, etc.
@lordradish
You might want to read my latest edit of the post you quote me for, think I managed to explain it a bit more thoroughly than initially.
You might want to read my latest edit of the post you quote me for, think I managed to explain it a bit more thoroughly than initially.
For the most part, that's true, more so once I get above the 17th fret. I've actually gotten pretty good at getting it going without a nudge. I did ask the luthier about what would be best, and I think he mentioned going lighter. He's starting the build, now, I'll let ya know when I have this question solved.
ps.
playing passages high on the lower strings on 6-string can sometimes emulate that short scale thing.
playing passages high on the lower strings on 6-string can sometimes emulate that short scale thing.
What I do is I take out the second point of the Yardstick Bridge entirely and just hold the sucker down on the table then hit it hard. Usually have to choke up on it to the halfway mark, or even less. At some point of choking up on it though, you've just gotta switch out the yardstick for a ruler — which to my ears sounds best about 2/3 to 75% overhang off the table before you thwack it.
Note, too, that material matters. A metal yardstick may cut through the mix better, but nothing beats a good hardwood yardstick. It is getting harder to find REAL maple ones though.
OH! And don't forget, some rulers have that durned metal strip stuck in 'm. Yank it OUT! ALL wood sounds best for rulers, metal rulers... meh!
You can get some interesting effects going by not only moving the ruler/yardstick back or forwards, pitch, but try adjusting the tension as you move it for even more subtle tonalities.
Note, too, that material matters. A metal yardstick may cut through the mix better, but nothing beats a good hardwood yardstick. It is getting harder to find REAL maple ones though.
OH! And don't forget, some rulers have that durned metal strip stuck in 'm. Yank it OUT! ALL wood sounds best for rulers, metal rulers... meh!
You can get some interesting effects going by not only moving the ruler/yardstick back or forwards, pitch, but try adjusting the tension as you move it for even more subtle tonalities.
Changing strings is for people who can't commit...
If it's broke, I'll fix it. I mean, change it.
More to do with laziness and cheap... mostly laziness.
If it's broke, I'll fix it. I mean, change it.
More to do with laziness and cheap... mostly laziness.
I like zingy strings. But if I'm not playing out (like lately) I'll put off changing them a lot longer.
i started working on this stuff cause i heard trumpet player arve henriksen doing this half-breath stuff on trumpet, then there are saxophonists who put little popped notes into passages.(and then there are a bunch of upright players doing extended technique . . . )
anyway, i was trying to get some of arve's thing going on bass (which is pretty much both impossible and stupid) and i started doing this stuff. as i went along i kind of came up with two variations on it.
the idea is to have varying pressure on the fingerings.
the first is pressing just a little bit less that normal, but the strings are not hitting the fingerboard. it sounds a bit like harmonics, but you do it on non-harmonic nodes.
the second is pressing on the string even less, so it become less pitch oriented and more percussive. it's probably a bit like ghosted notes, but it think it has more pitch content.
the plucking hand has to attack the strings pretty hard to get the effect (almost choking the strings).
anyway my hope is to get some different timbres and articulations out of the bass.
not sure it'll sound like much to any of you all and it's not necessarily gonna speak in most band situations, so figuring out where to put it is a challenge (though the stuff i do a lot has space for it).
caveat, the newer slightly heavier strings haven't quite gotten to where i need them to be.
all just going into amp, recorded to abelton, raw.
first bit is on the lower strings, alternating the different pressures for show and tell purposes.
second bit is higher strings trying, same deal, but a little more melodic (?)
third bit is sort of a groove plus freakout (the clicky stuff is me using a slightly longer nail on my rings hand).
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That's really nice work, @steubig !
That inspired me to try similar things. I also tried those half fingerings with double stops. I also got carried away with some different techniques, like drumming the strings near the bridge for getting this attackles sound and playing drone string with this flicking kind of motion. I don't know if these are commonly used techniques or not.
I used short scale, Harley Benton Beatbass and G-lab Rebel Chaos Drive and Quiver Reverb, straight into my audio interface.
That inspired me to try similar things. I also tried those half fingerings with double stops. I also got carried away with some different techniques, like drumming the strings near the bridge for getting this attackles sound and playing drone string with this flicking kind of motion. I don't know if these are commonly used techniques or not.
I used short scale, Harley Benton Beatbass and G-lab Rebel Chaos Drive and Quiver Reverb, straight into my audio interface.
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