Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[monsterthompson]

Am I doing this right?

 

[dukeorock]

I hesitated on the Qu Bit Chord module sale price at Perfect Circuit. Just as I popped it in my cart it was gone from inventory. Guess I’ll have to make do with all my other toys

I think you’ll get by somehow

 

[monsterthompson]

I think you’ll get by somehow

They've got the OT on sale. I almost caved.

 

[dukeorock]

They've got the OT on sale. I almost caved.

Haha! I don’t know much about Octatracks. Heard they aren’t all that great

 

[Phe]

Intent is the key. If the artist says it's art and even more so if the audience think it's art then it is art.

From art's point of view it is not important how the sausage gets made.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I've thought about this alot, dunno if this is clear and well worded but.....
Création stops once the decision process of composer ends and let's the generation/computer take its place.
Once the AI takes command over the human in the "decisional process".

 

[monsterthompson]

@steubig

 

[lordradish]

cool. pretty much people will either it’s beautiful and comment only on that or bitch about the number of strings or it being an expensive coffee table.

some might even comment on the sound or how you play.

(gleaned from years of playing “fancy basses.”)

playing in tune: ime, playing barre chords in rune is, if not impossible, extremely difficult to do in. perfect 5th and 4ths are dicier than a lot of other intervals.

the how is just boring, you just knuckle down and do it. painstakingly, slowly. shifts are where the fun happens.

Yeah, no on the barre chords. I'd just be happy to get three notes in tune. I seem to have more of a prob with maj 3rds than perfect 5ths for some reason.

Yeah, nice looking bass... hear that a lot, rather hear 'nice playing'. I get that too, but considering a good majority of bar goers don't even know/care what I'm doing, that's expected.

 

[monsterthompson]

I seem to have more of a prob with maj 3rds than perfect 5ths for some reason.

Major 3rd intervals throw me because my ear pulls toward the just intonation 3rd instead of the equal temperament 3rd when I’m solo noodling.

 

[lordradish]

I certainly don’t think generative or AI music will or should replace all human music. However there’s a lot of variety under the umbrella term of music. I think the idea that generative compositions devalue music as a whole by any meaningful amount is unrealistic at this point in history. Generative music certain encroaches on certain areas of music production, though possibly because AI/generative music wasn’t truly an option until recent years.

I think the generation thing works better with some genres than others. Look at Eno's last album, Reflection. He set up a generative algorithm and let it run for something like 40 hours and then went and picked his favorite hour (and you can even buy an app version that lets you do your own Reflection generation). I think that's a lot different than having an AI analyze a genre and write a song based on every possible cliche imaginable. A lot of my favorite music may be somewhat generative in origin - Steve Roach also does it quite a bit, but even if I liked those genres yall have been talking about for this (I never even heard of 'djent' before this, never liked nu-metal), I don't think I'd find any of that music anything I'd waste my time with, because it just ain't the real deal. Even found this - being a prog fan, I'd have no interest in this, at all.


I think it can be used as an amusement/way to cheaply make music or it can be an expressive tool. Like everything else in life worth looking at, not black or white.

 

[lordradish]

Major 3rd intervals throw me because my ear pulls toward the just intonation 3rd instead of the equal temperament 3rd when I’m solo noodling.

I don't seem to have as much of the problem playing notes in sequence. It's the harmonies where my flaws really shine.

But I plan on woodshedding on the 6 er like a mad mofo. If that songwriter trio I was playing fretless in comes back up again, I want to have a much larger part and play a lot of chordal stuff interwoven in my lines, because I have the room for it to work in that particular project.

 

[steubig]

there's so much interesting stuff in here . . .

some thoughts:

i used to be of the opinion that it was art if the artist said it was. however, i'm now of the opinion that some people who call themselves artists are dubious at best; they're into the name of being an artist, but not the work necessary to be one. so, for me that sentiment is a distinct maybe.

re eno using as generative process: it's interesting to note that he had 40 hours and decided on the hour he liked best. so one might surmise that the 40 hours had a pretty low success rate. more importantly, he took the generated materials and made choices based on that.

craft versus art: i'm married to a ceramist, so i've seen lots of clay work over the last 35 years. my general observation is that there are people who are serviceable craftspeople who make really (imo) ugly/boring work; there are also people who are great at both the craft and the art—and some who take it into another realm. i think you can take that and apply it to the cover band (or any band) scenario as well—there are serviceable players who do a good job that is uninspiring and those that are really good and exciting too. and the some punk bands things it pretty spot-on, some were really good withing their limitations. the sweet child thing is interesting in that axl hear the possibilities, so one might say that this was a case of human inspiration. i bet they massaged it a bit to come up with the final part.

drum packs/generative: seems to me you're taking building blocks and using them to create something—making decisions . . . you're not using the raw material as it stands with no manipulation, right? this is where the human/generative continuum ugly mentioned comes to bear, imo.

maybe being a really good craftsperson approaches art, as there are the technical requirements plus an added sense of personality.

seems to me that "uses generative techniques" as a component of a piece is different than the piece is *only generative* (i.e., let the algorithm run for an hour and call it an album).

as noted before, there's serialism, which is a generative practice, but also composers who use aleatoric sections or things that say play highest not possible. therea re also composers that use cells that are almost like little asynchronous loops. all of these things are potentially "generative," but are at the behest of the composer's intent. (now if you want to talk about the worth of "the composer" being a great arbiter of things, that gets into a whole different thing.)

 

[steubig]

I haven't done a live gig since the pandemic started, but back when I was gigging I realized that solo electronic shows were much more difficult than just playing bass in my rock band. Operating all that machinery by yourself is a lot of pressure and takes at least as much practice and rehearsal as playing in a band, yet at time it feels less musical, since I'm mainly starting and stopping sequencers, setting up patches, and so on, with just a little lead playing. Interesting to think about but I enjoy both.

imo, find a sympatico partner who also wants to work along these lines and do as a duo.

 

[steubig]

The waters can get murky because the observer often interprets a musical production differently from the producer.

.......

I think the idea that generative compositions devalue music as a whole by any meaningful amount is unrealistic at this point in history. Generative music certain encroaches on certain areas of music production, though possibly because AI/generative music wasn’t truly an option until recent years.

imo, "consumers" see music less as an activity that they make an effort to hear and engage with, and more as a "soundtrack" for their "lifestyle." in that case, the quality of the "content" is pretty much secondary. (one could argue it was ever thus, but that it is being accelerated.)

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

@steubig
“i'm now of the opinion that some people who call themselves artists are dubious at best; they're into the name of being an artist, but not the work necessary to be one. so, for me that sentiment is a distinct maybe.”


(pays virtual drink of choice)

 

[steubig]

@steubig
“i'm now of the opinion that some people who call themselves artists are dubious at best; they're into the name of being an artist, but not the work necessary to be one. so, for me that sentiment is a distinct maybe.”


(pays virtual drink of choice)

man, i gotta get up to your area. at this point i think you’re on the hook for 15 espressos and 18 beers.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

man, i gotta get up to your area. at this point i think you’re on the hook for 15 espressos and 18 beers.

I'm good with that debt.


I know a select few of those wanna be artistes that spend more time on PR, social media and stabbing people in the back.
One or two in particular are now trying to be producers for some bands over here.
Someone end me please.

 

[steubig]

I don't seem to have as much of the problem playing notes in sequence. It's the harmonies where my flaws really shine.

fwiw, i meant chords in sequence.

 

[lordradish]

re eno using as generative process: it's interesting to note that he had 40 hours and decided on the hour he liked best. so one might surmise that the 40 hours had a pretty low success rate. more importantly, he took the generated materials and made choices based on that.

I think the 'craft' part comes in the construction of the generation, in this part... the crafting of the parameters/algorithms and such. I don't know if the selection from the album was because of 'the best 40' or because of the limitations of the album format.

From Eno's blurb on the 'Reflection' app (that site has several cool generative apps):

"REFLECTION is the most recent of my Ambient experiments and represents the most sophisticated of them so far. My original intention with Ambient music was to make endless music, music that would be there as long as you wanted it to be. I wanted also that this music would unfold differently all the time - ‘like sitting by a river’: it’s always the same river, but it’s always changing. But recordings - whether vinyl, cassette or CD - are limited in length, and replay identically each time you listen to them. So in the past I was limited to making the systems which make the music, but then recording 30 minutes or an hour and releasing that. REFLECTION in its album form - on vinyl or CD - is like this. But the app by which REFLECTION is produced is not restricted: it creates an endless and endlessly changing version of the piece of music."​

 

[steubig]

interesting

so the app is the real version of the music and the album is an example of or advertisement for it?

i thought it was mentioned that he recorded 40 hours and took the hour he liked best, so i based my comment on that.

no matter, really, eno is far more successful and influential than i’ll ever be.