There's a huge difference in true professional grade console built for touring and the stuff the average young musician can buy for $500.00
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Amp Guts Photos - Official Thread - Lets see those pics
- Thread starter svtb15
- Start date
There's a huge difference in true professional grade console built for touring and the stuff the average young musician can buy for $500.00
Soldano
Suhr Custom Audio
Bryston
Bass amps are very limited in what is available.
I'm just using guitar amp builds as examples.
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The whole point of this collection of photos is to get prospective buyers to look at what's under the hood before they plunk down their hard earned cash and to hopefully have some basic reference of what various build types look like.
The design is only as good as the execution of the build and the quality of the components.
The design is only as good as the execution of the build and the quality of the components.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,062
- 5
- 221,097
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Agreed, exactly as your boutique amp examples do not apply to the young musician's $500 budget.
If you are going to discredit a construction method, you must do so using equivalent product classes. Comparing a $500 amp to a >$2000 amp is not equivalent either.
Compare a $500 boutique hand wired tube amp to a $500 production amp if you wish to show credibility to your argument please.
Okay, i just happen to have some pix of Carvin BX500 innards:
Here it has the front panel circuit board pulled back showing the graphic EQ and other controls (I was replacing the front panel circuit board):
It has pot's mounted on the PC board but in such a way that they'd be easily replaceable and they're secured using the usual hex nuts on the panel side.
Here it has the front panel circuit board pulled back showing the graphic EQ and other controls (I was replacing the front panel circuit board):
It has pot's mounted on the PC board but in such a way that they'd be easily replaceable and they're secured using the usual hex nuts on the panel side.
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Best examples of semi affordable hand wired amps are Gries, Reeves, Fargen, Emery Sound, and those start at like $800.00 for a 5 watter. Even the little Vox AC4HW built in Vietnam is priced at $700.00
In bass amps, I'm not going to find anything that is not PCB in that range.
You can go Ceriatone and get an amp built better than most current production Marshalls for under $1000.00 but you're ordering direct from Malaysia.
What bothers me much more than the amp that retails for $500.00,
are the ones priced at $2000.00 that really should be priced closer to $500.00
Above all, what really bothers me the most is the heartbreak of a young musician, who saved for a year to buy what he or she hoped was going to be their dream rig, only to see it fall apart or develop serious, unrepairable issues after it goes out of warranty.
The average rate for qualified bench labor in this area is $80.00 per hour.
The ease of serviceability can mean the difference between keeping the amp and tossing it.
To use another analogy.
You go to buy a modern car or truck and you open the bonnet and very quickly realize that
if anything breaks you are totally screwed!
Kinda like my old Volvo 240 where they hung the heater blower by a string and built the car around it.
16 hours labor flat rate to change a blower motor.
In bass amps, I'm not going to find anything that is not PCB in that range.
You can go Ceriatone and get an amp built better than most current production Marshalls for under $1000.00 but you're ordering direct from Malaysia.
What bothers me much more than the amp that retails for $500.00,
are the ones priced at $2000.00 that really should be priced closer to $500.00
Above all, what really bothers me the most is the heartbreak of a young musician, who saved for a year to buy what he or she hoped was going to be their dream rig, only to see it fall apart or develop serious, unrepairable issues after it goes out of warranty.
The average rate for qualified bench labor in this area is $80.00 per hour.
The ease of serviceability can mean the difference between keeping the amp and tossing it.
To use another analogy.
You go to buy a modern car or truck and you open the bonnet and very quickly realize that
if anything breaks you are totally screwed!
Kinda like my old Volvo 240 where they hung the heater blower by a string and built the car around it.
16 hours labor flat rate to change a blower motor.
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The best example I can give related to the quality of the individual 3rd party board components that go into circuit boards comes from Apple.
Back when the 1st Generation iMac G5's came to market, the units began having problems after about 6 months.
Many people developed issues after the warranty had expired.
The culprit was a bad batch of Chinese capacitors that ended up affecting 11,000+ units worldwide.
They couldn't take the heat and blew their tops.
Now how much money did Apple's bean counters save using that 3rd party supplier?
Back when the 1st Generation iMac G5's came to market, the units began having problems after about 6 months.
Many people developed issues after the warranty had expired.
The culprit was a bad batch of Chinese capacitors that ended up affecting 11,000+ units worldwide.
They couldn't take the heat and blew their tops.
Now how much money did Apple's bean counters save using that 3rd party supplier?
That begs the question whether it was a bean counter's conscious decision or a case of counterfeit parts in the supply chain?
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This thread used to be so cool, with people posting amp guts photos for the fun and enjoyment of seeing what's inside all these wonderful amps. What happened to that? 
It would be a waste. With in the limits of the bass, preamp, and cabinet, any advantages (if they actually exist) would not be perceivable when compared to a $300 class D power amp (assuming all the steps for gain and voltage matching were taken).
For some of the guys I talk to, no worse than $6500.00 for a pair of Barefoot MM27 near fields.
Before I spent that much, I'd have to hunt down, the cleanest vintage Hiwatt DR-405 I could find.
Before I spent that much, I'd have to hunt down, the cleanest vintage Hiwatt DR-405 I could find.
The PCB mounted preamp tube sockets and pots in these two amps have held up pretty strong for the last 40+ years...
Conversely, all the tubes in this little guy are chassis mount, it cost under $200 on the used market (around $250 when new in the 90s I believe), but probably isn't the best of quality in terms of components and such.
The Apple issues were part of the "capacitor plague" problem, Dell and HP got hit pretty bad too. It was sourced to a Taiwanese company making bad caps with some reports that it was caused by a stolen-but-incomplete electrolyte recipe.
At least it looks like they used fairly heavy board material and they did mount the hotter running power tube sockets
on the chassis.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,062
- 5
- 221,097
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,062
- 5
- 221,097
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
In the photo showing the brown (phenolic?) PCB there looks to be evidence of discoloration/burning on it, or is that just an artifact of the photography?
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,062
- 5
- 221,097
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
IME, that's pretty typical heat related aging on phenolic pcb material. On well designed pcbs, that won't be an issue for decades (or more). I wonder how old that one is?
