Amp Longevity

[Super Bass]

Amps generally only last until the new models come out the next year that a few ounces lighter!!

 

[iiipopes]

A couple reasons I can think of:

• Weight. When you can have five times the power at one tenth the weight, a modern amp starts to look really attractive.
• Cost to repair. Even if all that's needed is output tubes, that can get expensive (especially at current prices). If something goes wrong and actual diagnosis and repair is needed, just finding someone who is competent to work on it can be difficult, and those techs are often in demand, so they can charge more.

If a manufacturer isn't considering the product lifespan during design, they're probably manufacturing junk. Ask @agedhorse, I'll be he could write a book about the tradeoffs involved in designing amps that are both reliable and affordable.

This ^ In the early 90's I sold my SVT head for these two reasons. Instead, I purchased a Carvin PB300 which cost the same at that time as completely re-tubing the SVT head. The PB300 was my gig head for years. Then I wanted something even lighter in weight, so now it resides in my band's rehearsal hall with an SWR Triad cab as my rehearsal furniture. I could still gig with it if I wanted to, as the only thing wrong with it is that the DI out is after all these decades a little more noisy than my sound man would prefer.

 

[agedhorse]

During the 1950-s -1980's when tube amps were at their heyday, in general quality manufacturers were looking at a 10-20 year lifecycle. models didn't change very often, so there were a lot built over those years (for example, only 500/year x 20 years represents a total production build of 10,000 units). What we see in the marketplace now are the ones that survived, and many of these have had significant repairs though "closet and attic" finds may still work without repairs.

Lower level manufacturers often built with 5-10 year lifecycles, these were offered with 90 day to 1 year warranties and not as many survived because they weren't as desirable combined with the same high cost of repair.

Today, quality manufacturers are still designing around 10-20 year lifecycles, though some are looking at longer lifecycles where practical. The difference is that component development occurs MUCH faster than before, meaning that old components become obsolete at a faster pace than ever. The advantage of this is that new features and greater performance is possible at a lower cost, the disadvantage is that some parts being used (especially in the digital world) run the risk of being discontinued by the component manufacturers.

 

[Cleezmo]

I sold a Peavey TNT 130 a few years ago that was built in 1997. I’d had it for at least twenty years. The on/off switch failed, cost me about $2.50 to replace it. It sounded as good/mediocre when I sold it as it did new. It had been rained on, dropped off the tailgate, and had numerous beer spillage occurrences. I changed the grill cloth to Fender style, but no other mods or fixes.

Similar story - I bought a Harktke Kickback 115 waaaaay back in 2004. It never had any issues in the 17 years I used it - practice, gigs, jam sessions, etc. Last year when I finally upgraded to a cab/head rig, I donated it to a local middle school because their jazz band had a bass player but no amp. That thing will still be working 10 years from now so any number of students can play it too loud and be asked to turn down so the teacher can hear the rest of the band...

Also FWIW, my new rig of a 2x10 and head unit combined weights about 10 pounds less than that old Harke combo, and is easier to fit in a car.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Amps do way better than computers which seem to have about a 4 year useful life before being considered outdated. Some get new machines ever two years and update their phone whenever the latest comes out.

Some loyal to a brand musicians are like that. When a new model is introduced, they have to get one.

 

[CletusMarley]

My old Bugera BVV300 weighs like 85 pounds. Lol. It sounds amazing but I cant imagine lugging it in and out of clubs nightly. Not to mention it raises the temp in my room like 10 degrees. Lol. I don't fire it up too much anymore.

 

[darwin-bass]

Manufacturers don’t want you to buy one thing and keep it forever ...Design longevity is a balancing act.

A responsible company will fuel future sales by added features rather than planned obsolesce. In the electronics world, parts lifespans are already short enough that obsolesce happens sooner than most want. Good products go out of production because the parts can't be obtained any more. No need to take extra steps to ensure the product dies an early death.

 

[crazyBassClown]

The tech is so old - usually older technology gets cheaper, but somehow tube amps are still expensive.

Tubes are a lot more expensive than transistors, and the transformers they need are also expensive. These amps are also a very niche market compared to most electronics.

When I finally had the funding to get the amp I had always wished for, the amp that was ubiquitous only a decade earlier seemed to be few and far between.

Maybe people where keeping them rather than selling them?

But Mesa currently doesn’t make anything but micros for bass and hasn’t for about 8 years now.

I'm pretty sure the prodigy was in production more recently than that, but I've never actually seen one in the flesh.

 

[JimmyM]

That is not 100% correct. Orange is still making the AD200 in decent quantities, and I think you will find Ashdown tube amps as well.

Yeah, I forgot about both. Ashdown does pretty well with little tube amps. Don’t see the bigger ones much but I know a couple guys who have them. And of course the AD200 still gets play with bassists.

I’m going to blame this tremendous oversight on not being a Brit

 

[JimmyM]

I'm pretty sure the prodigy was in production more recently than that, but I've never actually seen one in the flesh.

It’s been a while. I recall it being shortly after the D800 came out and started selling well. And Andy wasn’t at Mesa a super long time before he made the D800. I think it’s had to have been at least 6 years.

I can’t remember if it was a Prodigy or Strategy, but our local Sam Ash had one and I played it. Had the typical super tight Mesa trademark bass sound but also had some nice warmth. Surprised it got the axe because it hadn’t been around very long, and it was exactly what Mesa fans liked about their tube amps.

EDIT: You were correct. Disco’d mid-2018. That’s 4 years for the math challenged.

 

[fdeck]

I expect my amps to last indefinitely. I'm a day jobber, transport my own gear to tame venues, and seldom push it very hard. My two "retired" amps are serving in stationary duty, one is in my practice room, the other in the preamp factory. I only bought new ones because I got caught up in the lightweight amp craze, and now I won't go back.

 

[crazyBassClown]

EDIT: You were correct. Disco’d mid-2018. That’s 4 years for the math challenged.

I'm surprised it's that long. There are still some* being advertised as new from music shops here in australia. Clearly they didn't sell very well, at least here.

*At least one. A few weeks ago I saw adds for a couple on clearance from somewhere else but they are clearly sold now.

 

[cymbop]

I have three amps. They're all Ampegs, all 45+ years old, and I expect them to be rocking long after I cannot anymore.

 

[GretschWretch]

Yeah, I forgot about both. Ashdown does pretty well with little tube amps. Don’t see the bigger ones much but I know a couple guys who have them. And of course the AD200 still gets play with bassists.

I’m going to blame this tremendous oversight on not being a Brit

No, it's because you debassed yourself by switching your allegiance to drums.

 

[AcadianBassman]

I bought my first car and my 400+ on the same loan when I graduated hs way back in '97. The civic is long gone but the Mesa is still with me. It probably dates somewhere from 88-95, I'm third owner, and I've never replaced a tube. I've used two fuses, had the power cord replaced as well as the pilot light - the lens broke-off and I had to buy the whole unit and not just a lens. It still sounds great but is heavy as lead! I've contemplated a lighter unit but cannot bring myself to part with it. Considering it was bought used twenty-five years ago and was probably at the very least five years old at the time, survived many miles of road travel and gigs on the bar circuit between five or six provinces (Canuck here), an accident that wrote-off the a cube van (thank God for custom road cases) as well as many sub-zero winters in the back of said van - it owes me NOTHING! So as far as longevity, I hope I'm not jinxing it but I figure this bugger is immortal!

 

[fdeck]

During the 1950-s -1980's when tube amps were at their heyday, in general quality manufacturers were looking at a 10-20 year lifecycle. models didn't change very often, so there were a lot built over those years (for example, only 500/year x 20 years represents a total production build of 10,000 units). What we see in the marketplace now are the ones that survived, and many of these have had significant repairs though "closet and attic" finds may still work without repairs.

Lower level manufacturers often built with 5-10 year lifecycles, these were offered with 90 day to 1 year warranties and not as many survived because they weren't as desirable combined with the same high cost of repair.

Today, quality manufacturers are still designing around 10-20 year lifecycles, though some are looking at longer lifecycles where practical. The difference is that component development occurs MUCH faster than before, meaning that old components become obsolete at a faster pace than ever. The advantage of this is that new features and greater performance is possible at a lower cost, the disadvantage is that some parts being used (especially in the digital world) run the risk of being discontinued by the component manufacturers.

When engineers talk about those lifespans, are they talking about the expected MTTF of a unit, or the continued availability of repair parts?

 

[Ric5]

I’m stuck at home with a leg injury and passing the time playing bass. I was thinking about my amp, it’s a 1990 Mesa Buster! Bass 200, it’s 32 years old now and is working well.
If tube amps are so easily repairable and customizable, what would cause them to be shelved or discarded?
Also, do manufacturers have a certain amount of projected lifespan for their products?
Lastly, if Mesa made (let’s pick a nice round number) 1000 units is there a formula that can be used to estimate how many are still in use.

just some of my thoughts on a slow day.
Thank you for humoring me,

I have 3 ampeg heads and 6 8 ohm cabs ... I keep a setup to play at home, and a setup for the rehearsal space, and a 3rd setup for gigging

 

[FSGrind]

It has nothing to do with the functionality of the tube amp. it's the weight of class D. a lot of players are willing to sacrifice sound quality for mobility. can't say that I blame em lol.

 

[Lo-E]

Yeah, I forgot about both. Ashdown does pretty well with little tube amps. Don’t see the bigger ones much but I know a couple guys who have them. And of course the AD200 still gets play with bassists.

I’m going to blame this tremendous oversight on not being a Brit

You’re also not a kanook, apparently. I believe Traynor is still making one or two tube bass heads. I won’t swear to it though; I’m from Brooklyn!

 

[agedhorse]

When engineers talk about those lifespans, are they talking about the expected MTTF of a unit, or the continued availability of repair parts?

Generally MTBF, but on some types of amps there is fairly expensive maintenance (say a tube amp may require new tubes every 10 years or so depending on the amp and use).