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Amp recommendations?

5

5string

May 5, 2003
29
0
65
Hanover PA
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#1
Sorry guys it would take months to search for this dialog.

I need suggestions on a reliable amp with POWER.

I currently play a peavey nitro and 2-4ohm BW 15 cabinets. that puts it at 450 watts at 2 ohms. I play a Cirrus6 in maple and a 4001 Fireglo.

We have a new guitarist who roled in with a Mesa Class A to assist the other guitarist and his wall-o-Marshall. My amp is in-the-red and while at first I refused to play the volume wars my nice reliable Peavey is not cutting through on stage volume and lives in-the-red. I am pushing a great signal out-front but the drummer is loosing me on stage. Sure I could get these insane bozos to turn down but that ain't gonna happen. The band is smoking hot and playing big clubs now so I ain't gonna leave and I do half the vocal work which would cripple them.

What really bugs me is that quality sound and dynamics go right down the crapper when this sort of thing happens.

Sorry for the rant, any ideas are greatly appreciated.
 
#2
5string said:
Sorry guys it would take months to search for this dialog.

I need suggestions on a reliable amp with POWER.

I currently play a peavey nitro and 2-4ohm BW 15 cabinets. that puts it at 450 watts at 2 ohms. I play a Cirrus6 in maple and a 4001 Fireglo.

We have a new guitarist who roled in with a Mesa Class A to assist the other guitarist and his wall-o-Marshall. My amp is in-the-red and while at first I refused to play the volume wars my nice reliable Peavey is not cutting through on stage volume and lives in-the-red. I am pushing a great signal out-front but the drummer is loosing me on stage. Sure I could get these insane bozos to turn down but that ain't gonna happen. The band is smoking hot and playing big clubs now so I ain't gonna leave and I do half the vocal work which would cripple them.

What really bugs me is that quality sound and dynamics go right down the crapper when this sort of thing happens.

Sorry for the rant, any ideas are greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

I have a Carvin B1500 and like it. I haven't used it at 2 ohms, just at 4. However, it's rated at 1900 W at 2 ohms (1250 at 4 ohms). I haven't put it on a scope to check the output, but let me just say it feels subjectively as if it's putting out a good amount of power.
 
#5
If it's all about cutting through on stage, I'd say just get a BIG power amp to go with what you've currently got.
Power amps aren't too expensive, and there are some big ones out there.

Edit: But what I think you really need is a couple of 4x12's or 8x10's. Never mind that you don't like the tone, from your telling of the story it sounds more like survival.
 
#6
The way you EQ is sucking up a LARGE amount of power needlessly. "Cutting through" is ALL in the midrange. Boosting lows basically does nothing but muddy your sound. It may sound great at home, or right in front of the amp, but out in the crowd, you'll be hearing mud.

That's a pretty nice budget for a head. There are alot of ways you could go, although you are going to be somewhat limited by wanting to run a 2 ohm load. A lot of amps won't take that.

You could look into a Mesa 400+ or an Ampeg SVT CL or II. Both around 300 watts, all tube, and LOUD

An Eden WT550 would be cool and it goes down to 2 ohms. It has 600 watts at 2 ohms I believe.

Epifani has a new head out that's getting rave reviews. I'd have to check to see if it goes 2ohm or not.

You could go for one of the higher wattage (but not as good sounding to my ears) solid state Ampeg SVTs...the IV or V, and I believe there is now a XI out.

Im sure more guys will chip in with alot more suggestions.
 
#7
cheezewiz said:
The way you EQ is sucking up a LARGE amount of power needlessly. "Cutting through" is ALL in the midrange. Boosting lows basically does nothing but muddy your sound. It may sound great at home, or right in front of the amp, but out in the crowd, you'll be hearing mud.

That's a pretty nice budget for a head. There are alot of ways you could go, although you are going to be somewhat limited by wanting to run a 2 ohm load. A lot of amps won't take that.

You could look into a Mesa 400+ or an Ampeg SVT CL or II. Both around 300 watts, all tube, and LOUD

An Eden WT550 would be cool and it goes down to 2 ohms. It has 600 watts at 2 ohms I believe.

Epifani has a new head out that's getting rave reviews. I'd have to check to see if it goes 2ohm or not.

You could go for one of the higher wattage (but not as good sounding to my ears) solid state Ampeg SVTs...the IV or V, and I believe there is now a XI out.

Im sure more guys will chip in with alot more suggestions.
Click to expand...


+1 midrange is voice. that goes for any instrument. but if you ant your bas sto cut through then you definately need some midrange.

id go with an ampeg svt and some 12" speakers or an ashdown abm range head and either their 15's, 12', or 10's. you be suprised how much low thud a 10 can give when you EQ it right. good luck.
 
#8
SWR 900 might fit the bill. It will handle 2 ohms.
Very reasonable in weight, bridgeable as well.
Specs are 400 watts per channel at 2 ohms.
Or 800 watts bridged at 4 ohms. That is some serious noise.

I picked one up recently used in excellent condition right here
on TB for about 630 shipped.

Cheezwiz's point about the mid EQ is very well taken. You
really need to think about where you are actually applying
your power to the acoustical environment. The mids are all
yours, they are not really that much a part of the rest
of the bands sound spectrum, yet you don't take advantage of it. Knowing that you are NOT cutting through the mix, and
that you are de-emphasizing your mids may make you
reconsider how you approach your EQ.

Why don't you try a flatter curve during the next rehearsal?
And give the mids a slight boost and see how it affects
your bass cutting through.
 
#9
For that kind of money, you can really step up and look at some serious top end amps, such as:

Eden WT800B
EA Iamp800
Eden WT550
Thunderfunk 550
and the list goes on!

I totally agree with the comments on leaving you mids flat or even boosting them a bit. Ease up on the bass boost and you'll cut through much better.
Also, I think you may find that adding a 10" or 12" speaker somewhere in your rig may help cut through as well.
Best of luck!
 
#10
I think you might wanna check out;

Eden 550
Eden 800
Kustom Groove Bass 1200
Thunderfunk TFB550
and SWR SM or X series, might want to try used there swr is kind of expensive.

Alot of the amps I mentioned have already been mentioned by other guys replying, so check into the ones people have recomenned more than once, theres a reason for it, it's cause they're all good ;)

My 0.02$

Hope you find something dude!

-Rob
 
#11
I know you said you like the 15's but this may well have quite a bit to do with the problems hearing yourself and the drummer not hearing you. You said your sound out front was great, I take that to mean volume wise as well as tone wise? To me that indicates you are getting loud enough it's just that you're not getting the cut you need to deal with the on-stage roar. So as well as agreeing with the comments about the importance of midrange I'd say you might need to have a look at 10's. There's a reason why the ampeg 810 is something of a rock benchmark. Don't forget if your volume out in the audience is currently fine, when you plug in that big mutha power amp you're going to drown the rest of the band, so I'm not sure that more grunt is the best solution. Can you rent a cab to try it out?
 
#12
speakign of stage volume and all that jazz. volume is a plus from time to time. no big deal. however, and i wouldnt have believed it myself until i became a recordist/sound engineer, but to much volume, as was previously mentioned, can drown out other members and just sound muddy all over. as far as live play is concerned if you can get your guitar players to back off on volume that would help to. this also lets the PA and the soundman do its and his/her job easier making it sound better out in the audience.
 
#13
I had the same problem, except I had plenty of power. It just sounded like crap and I had to make it sound worse to cut through. A sound engineer told me that he thought that maybe the guitarists were EQing too much bass into their rigs, causing me to get lost in the mix. He was absolutely correct. If you were initially happy with your tone, maybe give it one last try by setting up with your drummer as loud as you need to be, and then bringing in the guitars to the mix. It's all about clarity...er, bass. :bassist:
 
#14
BadB said:
I had the same problem, except I had plenty of power. It just sounded like crap and I had to make it sound worse to cut through. A sound engineer told me that he thought that maybe the guitarists were EQing too much bass into their rigs, causing me to get lost in the mix. He was absolutely correct. If you were initially happy with your tone, maybe give it one last try by setting up with your drummer as loud as you need to be, and then bringing in the guitars to the mix. It's all about clarity...er, bass. :bassist:
Click to expand...

Good point. Good luck getting guitarists who won't turn down to alter their precious tone though.....
 
#16
My suggestion would be to sell your current set up.

Buy a used preamp and power amp.

Buy a new Schroeder 21012.

I think you could get a used Demeter VTBP-201S and a used Stewart World 1.6 or maybe 2.1 and still have enough left for the Schroeder.

With this rig, you could make your guitarists BEG you to turn down...and have great tone that will cut-through really well in any type venue.

Forget about speaker size...this speaker cab will amaze you (this page shows the 410 and the 21012).

:bassist:
 
#17
Matt Morgan said:
For that kind of money, you can really step up and look at some serious top end amps
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed. A top end amp is a great thing. My only thought about that is that the amp might then be kind of outstripping his existing cabs in terms of quality, which could mean that he wouldn't get to hear all the amp quality he paid for.

So if he has that budget, he might want to think about replacing the cabs too.

Maybe a Kustom Groovebass 1200 with some newer cabs.

Or a SansAmp RBI, a QSC RMX, and a coupla Avatar Neo 2-12s.

Or a Carvin B1500 with 2-12s and an 18 (or two 2-12s).

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=BRX15-1218&CID=BA

Even the BRX12 cab by itself has very good mids and lows.
 
#18
With $2000, you can buy a monster power/pre rig that will make your guitar players beg for mercy!!

Grab up a QSC PLX series, or Crown XS series power amp, and put a nice preamp like the Aggie DB659 in front of it. EQ it properly, and you will never have volume issues.

-Mike
 

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