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Amp setup idea. Will it work? Will it sound any good
- Thread starter acheron9865
- Start date
Your Sansamp is good gear, well known by soundguys. They shouldn't have a problem taking a feed off of it. It's the rest of your chain they won't like.
There are some pedals (I use a clone of a Wayhuge Porkloin) that split your signal, keeping the lows full and clean, and put some drive/dirt on the mids and highs, then sum it back together inside the pedal. They can be a handy way of mimicking a split-rig sort of sound like you're talking about and still be able to get that to the house by putting any old DI box at the end of the pedal chain and still just having one line going to the board.
Your Sansamp might have a similar function, don't know, but it'll at least have a colored sound that'll sound good through clean, full range speakers any soundguy worth a damn shouldn't have a problem with.
There are some pedals (I use a clone of a Wayhuge Porkloin) that split your signal, keeping the lows full and clean, and put some drive/dirt on the mids and highs, then sum it back together inside the pedal. They can be a handy way of mimicking a split-rig sort of sound like you're talking about and still be able to get that to the house by putting any old DI box at the end of the pedal chain and still just having one line going to the board.
Your Sansamp might have a similar function, don't know, but it'll at least have a colored sound that'll sound good through clean, full range speakers any soundguy worth a damn shouldn't have a problem with.
- Jun 6, 2012
- 4,837
- 6,859
- Disclosures
- I don't wait 30 minutes after eating, to go swimming.
I have a Crown XTI-4000 that has built in totally independent, configurable crossovers and I run a 2X10 at more or less full range (60hz up) and a 1X18 rolled off at around 300hz and it sounds excellent.
I wanna reiterate a question asked a few posts ago:
Why go through this trouble? Bi-amping just to bi-amp was pretty much hashed out in the 80's, and it didn't go anywhere.
Bi-amping so you can run effects in the high channel while keeping your lows clean, however, has merit. So far however, i've seen no mention of effects. So seriously, why?
Why go through this trouble? Bi-amping just to bi-amp was pretty much hashed out in the 80's, and it didn't go anywhere.
Bi-amping so you can run effects in the high channel while keeping your lows clean, however, has merit. So far however, i've seen no mention of effects. So seriously, why?
If as some of the wording suggests you don't yet have the EQ then I say buy an active crossover instead.
Reading between lines of OP he isn't getting the oomph, punch and clarity that he would like. Biamping is a way to get a lot of clarity. But the drawbacks of those cabs persist and make it a bad plan.
Using the 410 on highs would devastate the available loudness. And it still has crappy dispersion.
The 15 might be ok on highs but it is no great skakes for dispersion either.
Considering you haven't blown the 15 yet you might try a rolls sx21 for your crossover. Only $65. With the 410 on lows you can put a fair bit more power to it than running full range with the 15. So the only major downside would be still carrying the 15 to do little actual work.
And if you went to biamp effects with full range cabs, the sx21 is quite at home on a pedalboard. I can tell you all about that another day or search my posts.
I'm in the bi-amp project and as far as I experienced, even if a 4x10 can theorically be used for lows, i.e. cab tuning, number of cones, air pushing. .. it will in fact not react properly with my low F# string. I cant go smaller than 12s at high level volume and even some 12s has a hard time not farting out
Then something is wrong in your signal chain, your gear is lacking, or you are just plain doing something wrong.
Then your cabs are lacking, either in design or number.
This is not a personal slight so please dont take it as such. Your experience and comments about driver size dont line up with the reality that is modern drivers.
Ok just as a background, I play bass for 21 years with 10 professionally, private classes, college, studio and touring.
I'm not doing anything wrong, I tried avatar 4x10, old trace elliot 4x10 and 1810, markbass 2x10, 2x12, 2x15, mesa ph1000, ampeg 8x10, bergantino ae410 and cn212, LoPhat 2x12.
Recently I bought a Glock HR and I realized that my bass is an output/tone monster and may contribute to that.
I know how to play with eq and such. I want to share my experience because there's a lot of theoritical knowledge here.
The only 4x10 that deals good with my tuning is the bergantino ae410, even the ampeg 810 has difficulty handling the F#, not the frequency, the physical movement of the speaker
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So....
Output of your bass isnt as balanced as it could be? Signal chain. Cabs found lacking as well?
The only cabs on your list that I dont consider crap are the Berg's and maybe the LoPhat, and I know the voicing of the CN's wouldnt be for me.
Funny how you assume there's something wrong with me, my equipment, etc...
My bass is like anything people ever saw, the combination of woods, pickups and electronics make this thing sound huge. Even fodera or any builder don't have access to the wood and pickups used in this bass.
All I'm saying is at high volume 10s don't always react as well as bigger speaker and the tuning of a cab is not a guarantee of sounging right
If you are struggling to meet your goals, then there is something lacking, yes? So it is either you, or some part of your gear. Lets assume that you know what you are doing, that leaves the gear. So something about your gear is lacking.
Um.... (this is kind of a cute sentiment actually.)
I dont care what your bass is, or what it is made out of. If it has an output signal that is not conclusive to your goals, then it either isnt the right piece of gear, or needs some correction.
Craptastic speakers are going to sound bad, worse when pushed. That holds true for drivers of any size. Your experience has little to do with driver size, and everything to do with how well those drivers and the cabs around them were designed.
Well, If you DO go the bi-amp route, sell the sonic maximizer and get a proper crossover.
All the sonic maximiser is is an electronic version of snake oil.
All the sonic maximiser is is an electronic version of snake oil.
If the OP is still reading, and wants to Bi-amp, then he should get dedicated subs, and tops, and have a true go at it.
Very true....
Keep in mind, OP, that a lot of preamps are meant to go straight into the power amp so watching the signal level that goes to the EQ would be super important. That isn't a big stretch to run your rig like you drew it, it's actually kind of cool and something I myself might look into for some additional gain to the power amp I have.
There is also a lot of practical knowledge here. IMHO, the problems and solutions associated with reproducing low F# (23.2 Hz and probably beyond the hearing range of many) are not really going to chime with the OP or many other regular players when discussing the merits or otherwise of bi-amp setups. If I had your problem (and it sounds like an interesting, albeit potentially expensive, problem to have), I would be looking for a dedicated, independently powered sub-woofer.
Save yourself some trouble and get a bass squeeze compressor. Crossover and compression (instead of sonic maximizer) in one. then send to your favorite single cab.
There might be better crossover/compression pedals out there that I don't know about.
Seriously it doesn't take a big cab for the highs. I have an acme b2 and the tiny 3" (I think?) Mid driver just screams.
There might be better crossover/compression pedals out there that I don't know about.
Seriously it doesn't take a big cab for the highs. I have an acme b2 and the tiny 3" (I think?) Mid driver just screams.
Biamping is a method used to get the absolute maximum efficiency out of a sound system, using a minimum of equipment. If you're a touring sound company, you want to minimize your truck expenses; the way to reduce the stuff you have to haul is to have dedicated low, mid, and high frequency systems that are all optimized for their purpose. You get the most SPL per cubic foot/pound this way.
Biamping was much more important and useful back in the days when the biggest, baddest power amp on the market was a Crown DC300 - yes, there was such a time when a 300 watt amp was "the thing" for PA/FOH systems. It was hard to put together a system big enough for a stadium, so you really had to get every decibel you could out of the rig.
In current times, power amps with outputs of 5000 watts (or more) are common, as are speaker systems that can handle those massive amounts of power, but 1)the physics of speaker systems has not changed, so it's still big low end = lots of big speakers, so 2)there's still a huge advantage in the cost of a touring system in minimizing the truck load. So biamping is still the rule in PA/FOH for touring. And no one wants to waste building space on sound systems, so even in permanently installed PA systems, biamping is used to get the most sound out of the smallest cabinets.
But in bass guitar systems, it just doesn't really make sense. We have very portable full range systems available; they're not technically as efficient as big biamped (or tri-amped) systems, they don't produce as much sound per watt, but the thing is we have massive wattage available for little $$. It's not hard to put together a relatively simple system that get loud enough and sounds good for our purposes; if you plan on playing larger venues without a PA, it's a different ballgame, but for stage volume, as long as the band manages overall volume well, you don't have to go to technically complicated systems to have excellent sound.
Biamping was much more important and useful back in the days when the biggest, baddest power amp on the market was a Crown DC300 - yes, there was such a time when a 300 watt amp was "the thing" for PA/FOH systems. It was hard to put together a system big enough for a stadium, so you really had to get every decibel you could out of the rig.
In current times, power amps with outputs of 5000 watts (or more) are common, as are speaker systems that can handle those massive amounts of power, but 1)the physics of speaker systems has not changed, so it's still big low end = lots of big speakers, so 2)there's still a huge advantage in the cost of a touring system in minimizing the truck load. So biamping is still the rule in PA/FOH for touring. And no one wants to waste building space on sound systems, so even in permanently installed PA systems, biamping is used to get the most sound out of the smallest cabinets.
But in bass guitar systems, it just doesn't really make sense. We have very portable full range systems available; they're not technically as efficient as big biamped (or tri-amped) systems, they don't produce as much sound per watt, but the thing is we have massive wattage available for little $$. It's not hard to put together a relatively simple system that get loud enough and sounds good for our purposes; if you plan on playing larger venues without a PA, it's a different ballgame, but for stage volume, as long as the band manages overall volume well, you don't have to go to technically complicated systems to have excellent sound.
