Fender Rumble 40 or Rumble 100. You've got a tone you're happy with (I'm jealous) so stick with what you know and just boost the power a bit.
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Amp to Compete with a Big Band
- Thread starter jonners98
- Start date
Something to keep in mind is that all wattage numbers are not reported equal between manufactures. GK and Mesa are much more accurate in real world numbers vs many other brands. Therefore, they tend to be "louder" than others. For example; I had an Ampeg 350w that struggled to keep up with a 4 piece band. Once I switched to a GK 200w (same 2x10 speaker cabinet) I could bury them all...
If you're approaching "Bury them all" level in a conventional big band setting, I imagine you'll have some pissed off musicians and a furious band leader. You might even be told to pack up your gear and get off the stage.
The perceived "loudness" also is a function of the driver efficiency and cabinet design, which means more in a smaller combo amp.
Won't tell you to get the amps and cabs I use because they are way out of your price range. But I would suggest you peruse the used market for a 500-watt into 4 ohms amp and a GOOD, 8 ohm, 210 cab that will handle 300-watts rms. That will give you about 250 to 300-watts into your 210 and when (not if) you buy a second 8 ohm 210 cab, there will be enough watts to drive both of them at large venues.
The Fender Rumble 500 combo will work but if you decide you need a better, more powerful, or just different amp after buying the Rumble 210 extension cab, you're stuck hauling around a combo that you only use the speakers on. Still, for the near future that would work. Upgrade everything bit by bit as you make money gigging.
Only problem with going that route is you might not be able to keep up with the horns and a loud drummer with just the 210, but you won't know that until you play with them. Another option that would allay those fears would be to come up with an 800-watt amp (into 4 ohms) and start with a 410 cab. But that's going to be a lot more expensive. Just as an FYI, my amp is an 800-watt amp and its been more then enough for even outdoor Festivals since 2010 when I bought it. That's probably where you'll end up down the road. Just can't imagine you getting all that for £350. Good Luck!
Since stage rig is just that, for you and the other musicians on the stage, first decide what kind of volume you need up there. Just enough for yourself? Or do other musicians benefit from hearing your lines?
Speaking for myself, in virtually any situation with numerous musicians putting out a good amount of stage volume, I know I need to at least keep up with the drummer volume, so a 2X10 pointed at my ear holes shackling me to one spot probably won't cut it. I've had a couple of drummers bury me and my 2X10 the moment I stepped three feet away. I don't factor PA support into this at all, and in your situation I wouldn't go any smaller than 350SS watts at 8 ohms into a 1X15, 2X12, or 4X10 for starters. Then I would want to audition that rig with the band before committing, leaving room for a return/exchange if it doesn't work out.
I would also be eyeing an extension cab to kick the amp into 4 ohm mode and more output for large theater and outdoor stages. Ya never know.
That's how I roll. You can always turn 'em down, but woe unto the poor bass player who didn't bring enough, for once you max your rig and you're still getting buried, it's game over.
Speaking for myself, in virtually any situation with numerous musicians putting out a good amount of stage volume, I know I need to at least keep up with the drummer volume, so a 2X10 pointed at my ear holes shackling me to one spot probably won't cut it. I've had a couple of drummers bury me and my 2X10 the moment I stepped three feet away. I don't factor PA support into this at all, and in your situation I wouldn't go any smaller than 350SS watts at 8 ohms into a 1X15, 2X12, or 4X10 for starters. Then I would want to audition that rig with the band before committing, leaving room for a return/exchange if it doesn't work out.
I would also be eyeing an extension cab to kick the amp into 4 ohm mode and more output for large theater and outdoor stages. Ya never know.
That's how I roll. You can always turn 'em down, but woe unto the poor bass player who didn't bring enough, for once you max your rig and you're still getting buried, it's game over.
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I personally would NOT call a 200-watt 112 cab reasonable for what you are planning. I have a 225-watt 112 cab set up that I use for small venues with a 5-pc. group (bass, two guitars, drums, and keyboards) It is NOT enough for a medium sized venue. My small venue rig is an Eden TN226 (225-wattts into 4 ohms) and an Eden EX-112 cab (300-watts rms power handling). Liked the sound so much I bought a second EX-112 cab to use for medium sized venues. Since both are 4 ohm cabs I have to use my dual power-block Eden WT500/800 amp and plug one into each power section (delivers up to 400-watts rms per channel). That worked fine for Medium-sized venues as long as they were not long (deep) rooms.
The small-venue rig is light and easy to move. I put the class D amp in it's shoulder bag, put my gig bag over the other shoulder, grab the 30-lb cab by its top-mounted handle and my bass in the other hand and load in/out is almost done. Have to go back for my mic stand and stage stool (old fart here).
Small venue rig (all fits in a chair):
We can get fairly loud in a small venue and I sometimes have to turn on the auto compressor to keep it from clipping the power stage of the amp.
Medium venue rig with two 112's. Still used my 410 for large venues, outdoor venues, and festivals.
I've replaced the two 112 rig with my [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (handles 700-watts rms and has max SPL of 134db) powered by the same amp. It's more than enough for any indoor venue. But street price US on it is $849 to $969.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I used to play those kinds of gigs using an Ampeg flip-top or a Polytone. These days, it's a Crazy8 and/or Crazy88 powered by an Acoustic Image Forte.
I should hasten to add, for what it's worth, that competing with a big band may not be the best mindset for success in these gigs; I think more in terms of providing support for the band, and would rather be asked to turn up my on-stage volume than be asked to turn it down.
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Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Or add a second amp or cabinet: one aimed across the stage for yourself and your bandmates, and one aimed toward the audience.
First: Try you're Rumble 30. Does it work? Ask the director after rehearsal.
Second:
Since you have a good past with the Fender Rumble 30, how about getting a Fender Rumble 200? The 200 Watts into a 15" speaker will be plenty loud and full for that big band, and you'll even have options for a second cab. It's only 34lbs to carry too.
Keep in mind, when playing with acoustic bands, even loud ones, you don't need the power to match the entire band together, just be able to be a bit louder than other individual acoustic instruments on stage. Bands like that are used to listening to each other and matching volume. As long as you have the power to support the trumpets in the higher register, you are good. When the rest of the band is at their loudest it is very normal that they cover up the bass, piano and guitar... then they will come down in volume and let the rhythm section re-assert and take over.
I switched between cover bands, concert bands, and big bands throughout my career. The big bands often required more volume out of my rig than the cover bands. Many of the big band drummer had the idea that they had to really kick the band Buddy Rich style--meaning they played loud and aggressively. These drummers were often selected specifically for this ability.
My GK 700RB/112 comb made 225W. It got the job done, but I would have liked a bit more headroom on some stages. I usually used the GK for my rehearsal rig and toured with an Eden D210XLT which was a bit louder. Never ran out of headroom with the Eden.
My mind went there immediately as well, seeing the title. Music is a team sport - you're there to do your part in a cooperative artistic venture, not compete with anyone or for anything. In my case, I do the majority of my gigs without an amp - how loud I am is determined completely by someone running FOH. The only real clue I ever have as to how loud I am in the house is how much my feet are shaking, and when I'm on a concrete stage, even that is pretty much cut off - concrete just doesn't move that much.
Anyway, if you do have to have an amp, the point is it has to be big enough so it doesn't sound like uncontrolled farting when it shouldn't. But for Pete's sake, it's NOT a competition. Sorry, rant off.
Stan Kenton also comes to mind. Fortunately, I played over the decades with more subdued drummers for finesse rather than power. For example, they knew the trick to keep repeating the last chorus of "In the Mood" until they started seeing dancers leave the floor, then start hitting bell strokes on the crowns of the cymbals to signal the band for the last repeat, shout section, and out.
Indeed! It was just for some humor and relative comparison. In the volume wars, no one wins
One of the band leaders I played for was a Kenton band fanatic. He would always have the drummer feather the bass drum on every quarter note. If the drummer’s doing it right and you’re locked in, it adds hellacious attack to your notes. Makes every quarter note you play like the Kool-Aid man, the attack of the bass drum knocks down the wall, and through the hole comes your pitch, like the Kool-Aid man. Toughest band leader I ever played for, but also the best.
Much appreciated, thanks!
I do play upright, however I no longer own an acoustic due to space issues - my acoustic was set up for classical playing as well. I also have an EUB, but it's set up for rockabilly at the moment.
My electric sound is very upright-based - flats, muted and tone off through a p pickup solo'd most of the time, but I may be bringing my EUB out if certain gigs call for it. The thing is, the group also plays motown and other genres lending themselves to larger horn ensembles, so if I had one bass with me it'd be the electric.
Assuming swing/ traditional material as opposed to more beat oriented, a 12 or 15 inch combo would be more than enough IME. Don’t sweat this too much.
The use of the word 'compete' was totally off-handed - I was just trying to think of a catchy title. I didn't mean to come across as 'competitive' in a literal sense - I just wanted to know what would be needed, as someone who has worked almost exclusively in a studio over the years. Apologies if it came across as such, but I'm not trying to outplay my part by any means.
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