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amp without controls to just be everything you want

In true Talkbass fashion the thread has assumed a life of its own.

In reading and considering the OP and subsequent comments I am not sure I would want an amp, however classy, that I could not affect via manual controls.

My own sound changes a bit depending on my mood as much as any objective acoustical-electrical data.

I tend to play differently depending on how I feel, how the band is feeling, the song itself, etc.

As it is my amps get gnarly, louder and darker as I dig in or really pound out my lines - and I love that. They match my mood by simply reproducing my playing passively.

How would a “self-correcting” on the fly control-free amp deal with changing subjective emotional playing styles, which can vary in a number of ways?
I think you may have tapped into a key factor in this discussion that has not gotten much consideration until now.
This is more in the realm of the human psychi than anything else.

People have an almost unquenchable need to be in control of their own destiny, be it in music or other aspects of life. Relinquishing control of matters that personally affect you to another person can be a very scary proposition. Turning over all control to a uncaring, unfeeling machine can leave us with a sense of utter helplessness. Having a purpose in life and having some say in how that purpose is directed is at the very core of being a person. It may be as simple as having an override switch that will take the machine out of the equation. Even if the switch does nothing, we at least feel better in having a switch.

Part of my job is to deal with emergency technical situations. The call I would get was often initiated by an operator who is not normally trained in dealing with these situations. To best assess what is going on I need the caller to be fairly calm and ready to answer questions. If they are going off the deep end, they are no good to me. No one dies when things go wrong. The world will not end. But sometimes it seemed that way to the operator placing the call.

I once installed a large “panic button.” The instructions were, before you call me, press this button a few times until you don’t feel as anxious about what might be happening. I never was able to collect any hard data on the effectiveness of the button. But if it helped give someone a sense if control and brought them down to where we could carry on a coherent conversation, then it was worth it.
 
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I think y'all missed the entire point of the OP.

Imagine an amp that you just plug in. It has no buttons, but it begins to run. It sounds out the room for you to remove unwanted resonances. Now when you play you get a nice, even bass tone.

Imagine it goes a step further. Each note you play is specifically EQ'd for the room in real time. As the crowd starts filtering in, it adjusts and each note is just as clear. When you start playing with your band it detects that your bass is getting muddy with the kick. It automatically adjusts to retain clarity. It senses that it is being overpowered by some power chord chugging brute. It adjusts to cut through a little better while still retaining the bass's character.

Throughout the night it is monitoring your sound and adjusting so you get just what you need. You get a fat, low, growly sound right when you start chugging on some lower notes. When you play up high you get clear articulation. Even during that one part when you played a chord, it didn't get all muddy and weird.

At the end of the night you take your cloth and wipe off your strings because you are a friggin' weirdo and have too much time on your hands. "Hey man, we're almost done packing up. Your bass sounded great tonight, and it seemed like you were really into to playing, great job. Oh, I forgot about your amp there, make sure you don't forget it."

"I never will," you say, turning your head back to look at the smooth exterior. "I never will."

At that moment Marvin Gaye comes on over the house PA, but that is unrelated.
 
Playing into an amp that was constantly adjusting itself would be a chore. I'd rather have a set it and forget it amp that optimizes once and then gets out of the way. I can imagine fighting such an amp to get more whatever, articulation, high end, attack, round and mellow, you name it, and every time I adjust my technique the damn thing deploys countermeasures.
 
Im basically fine with treble/middle/bass and maybe presence or whatever depending on what the manufacturer calls it. Thats sort of what I like about Demeter stuff, although to me they tend to lean more towards the brighter/upper middy side of things so I end up turning the treble and mids down while turning the bass up.

I do own both an Eden WT800 and a mesa walkabout, and while I like the tone both of these produce, they just have more knobs than i want to deal with

Check out the Quilter Bass Block 800.
Frequency flat with both EQ knobs at noon.
The EQ isn't traditional, but extremely intuitive.
What you put in is what you get out, with high power and light weight.
 
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I think y'all missed the entire point of the OP.

Imagine an amp that you just plug in. It has no buttons, but it begins to run. It sounds out the room for you to remove unwanted resonances. Now when you play you get a nice, even bass tone.

Imagine it goes a step further. Each note you play is specifically EQ'd for the room in real time. As the crowd starts filtering in, it adjusts and each note is just as clear. When you start playing with your band it detects that your bass is getting muddy with the kick. It automatically adjusts to retain clarity. It senses that it is being overpowered by some power chord chugging brute. It adjusts to cut through a little better while still retaining the bass's character.

Throughout the night it is monitoring your sound and adjusting so you get just what you need. You get a fat, low, growly sound right when you start chugging on some lower notes. When you play up high you get clear articulation. Even during that one part when you played a chord, it didn't get all muddy and weird.

At the end of the night you take your cloth and wipe off your strings because you are a friggin' weirdo and have too much time on your hands. "Hey man, we're almost done packing up. Your bass sounded great tonight, and it seemed like you were really into to playing, great job. Oh, I forgot about your amp there, make sure you don't forget it."

"I never will," you say, turning your head back to look at the smooth exterior. "I never will."

At that moment Marvin Gaye comes on over the house PA, but that is unrelated.
Nope! Don’t think we missed the point at all.
The OP presented an interesting and conversation worthy thesis.
People weighed in on both sides of the argument and in doing so considered the many variables involved.
If the discussion favored one side more than the other, or did not align with your opinion it was not due to any misunderstanding of the original post.

You made a statement that you think we all missed the point. But you never explained why you felt that way.
You presented an argument but did not back it up. Rather you just went into a discussion of why such a device would be to your liking. Your supporting data does not support your premise. You didn’t connect the dots. Perhaps this is why you think we missed the OP’s point. Maybe you didn’t connect the dots of the opposing viewpoint.
 
I think y'all missed the entire point of the OP.

Imagine an amp that you just plug in. It has no buttons, but it begins to run. It sounds out the room for you to remove unwanted resonances. Now when you play you get a nice, even bass tone.

Imagine it goes a step further. Each note you play is specifically EQ'd for the room in real time. As the crowd starts filtering in, it adjusts and each note is just as clear. When you start playing with your band it detects that your bass is getting muddy with the kick. It automatically adjusts to retain clarity. It senses that it is being overpowered by some power chord chugging brute. It adjusts to cut through a little better while still retaining the bass's character.

Throughout the night it is monitoring your sound and adjusting so you get just what you need. You get a fat, low, growly sound right when you start chugging on some lower notes. When you play up high you get clear articulation. Even during that one part when you played a chord, it didn't get all muddy and weird.

And we're back to the first page of the thread: what you're describing is a good sound engineer.

AI will need to be a lot more compact and a lot more intelligent before this sort of thing can be part of a discount Fender combo amp, at which point the actual human bass player will also be an unnecessary part of the equation. ;)

If every band had a dedicated sound engineer, what a beautiful world that would be.
 
In the future we will all just jack into your brain and you can play the song in your mind for us all to enjoy.
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Nope! Don’t think we missed the point at all.
The OP presented an interesting and conversation worthy thesis.
People weighed in on both sides of the argument and in doing so considered the many variables involved.
If the discussion favored one side more than the other, or did not align with your opinion it was not due to any misunderstanding of the original post.

You made a statement that you think we all missed the point. But you never explained why you felt that way.
You presented an argument but did not back it up. Rather you just went into a discussion of why such a device would be to your liking. Your supporting data does not support your premise. You didn’t connect the dots. Perhaps this is why you think we missed the OP’s point. Maybe you didn’t connect the dots of the opposing viewpoint.

I think y'all missed the point because the OP is talking about an amp that automatically adjusts itself to reproduce a "good" bass tone. I described a scenario that showed (from what I could make out) what the tech would look like on an operational level, perhaps with a little embellishment, to fix what I saw as a perception problem.

Not everyone missed the point. People brought up good points like how something like this would react to something else dynamically changing the sound (aka, another one of these amps in play), or how the basic blocks of this tech exist in some form already.

But what the OP is describing is not a sound engineer. He is talking about something to eliminate the need for sound engineers. Also, if I am reading the post correctly, he wants the amp to faithfully reproduce the signal you send to it no matter the situation. I imagine you are still allowed to have a preamp and pedals to get the bass tone you want.

But overall, I think the point was missed because the OP was visualizing a piece of tech/equipment to solve a perceived problem, and people are either saying we just have to just live with the problem, the solution doesn't exist now, or just don't understand the problem he is trying to solve.

The problem, as I read it, is that you have to fiddle with your amp to get the same sound whenever the situation changes. I imagine he just wants to plug and play music, ie, be a musician and not a sound engineer.
 
I think y'all missed the entire point of the OP.

Imagine an amp that you just plug in. It has no buttons, but it begins to run. It sounds out the room for you to remove unwanted resonances. Now when you play you get a nice, even bass tone.
Who or what sets the criteria for this nice, even bass tone? And, how would this amplifier accomplish continuous sampling and adjustment of the changing room acoustics without sampling mics all over the room? There will be null spots where no amount of adjusting by man or machine will make a difference. As far as I know, you can't alter physical laws.
 
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Who or what sets the criteria for this nice, even bass tone? And, how would this amplifier accomplish continuous sampling and adjustment of the changing room acoustics without sampling mics all over the room? There will be null spots where no amount of adjusting by man or machine will make a difference. As far as I know, you can't alter physical laws.

No time for sampling anyway, unless you can tolerate a look-ahead format and the ensuing latency.
 
AI will need to be a lot more compact and a lot more intelligent before this sort of thing can be part of a discount Fender combo amp, at which point the actual human bass player will also be an unnecessary part of the equation. ;)

It's not about AI, it's about making choices. When there are many good choices (there is not a single good bass tone, nor is there a single tone for every type of music, different venues and especially different audiences may prefer a different bass tone/level in a mix. As a sound engineer, part of mt job is to get a feeling for all of these variables and adjust the mix to what I think is the best compromise with the least evils for that room, for that audience, for that day. I may approach it differently with a different audience, or with a different band energy level.

Who or what sets the criteria for this nice, even bass tone? And, how would this amplifier accomplish continuous sampling and adjustment of the changing room acoustics without sampling mics all over the room? There will be null spots where no amount of adjusting by man or machine will make a difference. As far as I know, you can't alter physical laws.

Even with sampling mics all over the room, all you get is a correction for the "average" of the room, the "perfect" tone still won't exist in every seat, nor could it even if guy could achieve such consistency off of the stage.
 
I think y'all missed the point because the OP is talking about an amp that automatically adjusts itself to reproduce a "good" bass tone. I described a scenario that showed (from what I could make out) what the tech would look like on an operational level, perhaps with a little embellishment, to fix what I saw as a perception problem.

Not everyone missed the point. People brought up good points like how something like this would react to something else dynamically changing the sound (aka, another one of these amps in play), or how the basic blocks of this tech exist in some form already.

But what the OP is describing is not a sound engineer. He is talking about something to eliminate the need for sound engineers. Also, if I am reading the post correctly, he wants the amp to faithfully reproduce the signal you send to it no matter the situation. I imagine you are still allowed to have a preamp and pedals to get the bass tone you want.

But overall, I think the point was missed because the OP was visualizing a piece of tech/equipment to solve a perceived problem, and people are either saying we just have to just live with the problem, the solution doesn't exist now, or just don't understand the problem he is trying to solve.

The problem, as I read it, is that you have to fiddle with your amp to get the same sound whenever the situation changes. I imagine he just wants to plug and play music, ie, be a musician and not a sound engineer.
Thank you for clarifying why you think we “all” missed the point. (Even though later you say that not everyone missed it.)

I guess then, the question that needs to be discussed is: How much of the tweaking of an amp is really a part of the musical process! Some consider it just as important as the notes being played. Others, not so much. But that is a whole other discussion.

I still hold to my belief that most of the responses did understand that the OP was proposing to automate a process that has traditionally been a manual one. I had no issue with him raising the subject.

But maybe to put it more in perspective of the psychological implications that I discussed earlier and which are hard to ignore, perhaps we might think in terms of not being a sound man replacement, but consider how we all feel about another form of automating what has been a traditionally human role. The self driving car.

This may be a better substitute than the sound man replacement scenario.

As much as dynamically changing the EQ of an amp based on algorithms that must predict certain conditions and adapt rapidly to those conditions, a self driving car operates under a set of instructions that assumes certain dynamics to be in play. And as with self driving cars or auto-adjusting amps, the software can be very good, but it still has to operate to the satisfaction of and in an environment containing some compilation of fleshy goo and emotional, unpredictable wetware.

In the situation of the amp, the worst case scenario is that the human interface might have a different definition of, as you phrased it, “a good bass tone.” No harm no foul. No one dies. The human experience is left wanting due to it’s own preference set. Of course if the human interfacing with a self driving car goes off on a tangent it could be tragic.
Not the car’s fault, nor the amp’s.

I think if the goal of such an amp were to satisfy the sonic needs of an automated listening device, then all would be right with the world. But people are fickle. What they like today, they may hate tomorrow. If you can include something that will keep up with that in your self driving amp, you may very well be able to realize your “good bass tone.”
 
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No time for sampling anyway, unless you can tolerate a look-ahead format and the ensuing latency.

Actually that would be the least of the problems imo as you’d want smooth change rather than tone and level jumping suddenly around... probably you’d have to put latency in.

A few more pages and we’ll be crowdfunding this :)
 
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Actually that would be the least of the problems imo as you’d want smooth change rather than tone and level jumping suddenly around... probably you’d have to put latency in.

A few more pages and we’ll be crowdfunding this :)

Nah, I already explored the more simplistic bits of this concept in pretty good depth a decade or so ago. Throwing human intention into the mix just makes it an exercise in cat herding, and I'm allergic to cats.
 
I run across this search for perfection (as defined by some specific single data point generated by mathematical calculations using a simplified model of an ideal world) quite often and it's total folly IMO. Excellence in execution should be the goal, and that requires an appreciation that the real world is dynamic and perfect is at best a momentary happenstance, and even then observer dependent. Even the tightest engineering tolerances (which are usually beyond human perception without instrumentation or tools) have some degree of deviation that is acceptable.

First, I do not think anyone can accurately model the world and all its environments and inconsistencies. Second, the concept of perfect is both situational and rarely constant over time. Third, given that music is something to be enjoyed by people (who I submit do mostly analog vice digital sensing - brain processing can be argued), I see nothing to be gained in "perfecting" musical performance past playing the right notes in in tune, riding the faders to maintain a good mix "song to song", and embracing the imperfect analog synergy that envelopes the band, sound tech(s), and audience, and will later be described by all as "a great show!".
 
Take the struggle out of it and all the idiots will be able to get a good sound...or will they? Hearing a good player is hearing the hours spent over many years struggling to find the notes, the time, the sound. Imperfections are mile-markers of the journey. Take them away and people will notice. Perfect ain't all it's cracked up to be.
I have an long time friend and fellow musician who years ago talked about how he enjoys the "imperfections" of live performance much more than the sanitized, perfect sound of "highly processed" recordings. To him there was something real and special about sitting in the room and hearing the artist create the song uniquely for that audience on that occasion.

FWIW he was an exceptional player who rarely made a mistake in performance, and when he did it was instantly turned into a noteworthy (no pun intended) highlight that most folks wanted to hear him play again next time we did that song!
 
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