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Ampeg fixed for now

Well I just got my new (3 months old) Ampeg BA115 amp back from the shop. It was rattling and making strange sounds. Turns out it has loose soldering connections. And this all starts with the Chinese manufacturing lines. The guy that fixed it (authorized ampeg serviceman) said that they are inspected by computer over there and that Ampegs made in China do not not use a "flex" solder on their connections, so any vibrating can make them break apart or come loose. Do I have to state the obvious here? He told me that 75% of made in China Ampegs are due to fail. Anyway he re-did all the connections and seals so all should be well now. Actually better than when I bought it.....Brand New!
 
There really is no such thing as "flex" solder......... ANY flexing of solder will "work harden" it and cause it to fracture faster. And NO solder joint SHOULD ever flex anyway.

There IS variation in the amount of solder used. That can affect the joint, if it is solder-starved, it will fail quickly with vibration. Like bass notes......

AND there IS the new "lead-free" solder that EVERYONE HAS TO USE. At least you have to if you want to sell in europe, or many other places. Everything made in china has to use it, china has a law about it, as does the EC. The US does not, yet, but it will shortly, almost without doubt.

The lead-free solder is going to fail. EVERYONE'S lead-free solder is going to fail. It just does not work like the old stuff, yet.

Lead free solder is NOT ALLOWED in avionics equipment, and that is for a reason. it is also not required for military, or for communications equipment, in other words, for anything that HAS to work.

IMO it is something of a scam, as it puts a (shorter) lifetime on equipment, and probably that is not what the writers of the law wanted. The "waste stream" will be filled with even more stuff that has failed, although a bit less lead will be in it.

Anyway, the point is that EVERYBODY has to use it, this one can't be blamed solely on Loud. But it IS an important quality issue that will affect the reliability of MOST new equipment.
 
Lead free solder was the culprit with my Ampeg BA 210. 7 months old and, according to the repair shop, it "shook itself apart". Stopped working altogether. All suspect connections were resoldered with lead solder (still allowed for repairs) to remedy the situation. If this is a common situation, some sort of engineering workaround will be required to insulate the electronics from vibration. This could become a very expensive situation for all manufacturers, Ampeg included.
 
Mate... I'm glad all my Ampeg gear is US made!

The last few months of US production, ever since July of 1 year ago, have all been with lead-free solder also.

That was the deadline for ALL manufacturers, if they wanted to ship to the EC.

Lead, and several other substances are all regulated to very low percentages as of that date of 1 year ago for imports into the EC.
 
I've had so much of my gear fail at the solder points.


My brother has a Rocktron Guitar Silencer that Guitarded Center was gonna throw away, so he took it "free Rocktron with purchase of goose neck mic stand" (it says it on the reciept!) and brought it to me. I opened it up and started looking at the solders first. EVERY. Let me say that again. EVERY solder point from the front panel knobs to the PCB were hard-soldered. Every time you touched the knobs, they put stress on the solder points. It's a design destined to fail. So I warmed up the iron, touched every point, and completely fixed the unit. Everything works again, except for one burnt out LED that he didn't care about anyway. It's a far superior noise gate than anything out there, even better than the ISP Decimator ProRackG. And to think... it was gonna get thrown away!

I've had basses with output jacks fail only at the jack's solder points. My lead guitarist had it happen the day of a gig. Our Carvin main PA cabs notorious for failing over and over again at the input jacks. Horrible design.


In my not-so-F'ing-humble opinion, quality can be determined at the solders. If you've got knobs/jacks hard-soldered straight to the PCB, destined failure right there. If you've got jacks/knobs soldered to FLEXIBLE wires run to the PCB, then it's gonna be a trustworthy piece of equipment.

Hard-soldered gear sucks. Period.
 
I thought ampeg moved to Vietnam, not China?

And yeah, the lead-free solder stuff is pretty wide spread now, RoHS in the UK, Personally never had any problems from using it?

Just about everybody is using the RoHS compatible lead-free solder.

The problems with it are being worked on, but are not yet solved. They include issues of soldering process, flux application etc to get a good consistent joint to begin with. Also issues of relative rates of thermal expansion, A phenomenon known as "tin whiskering" that can cause short circuits, and other miscellaneous issues. Certain solder alloys are better, but some of them are in very short supply, or are proprietory to Japanese suppliers, who have been working with lead-free for much longer than anyone else.

As far as Vietnam, I have heard a rumor that the Loud folks are dissatisfied with Vietnam and are looking to move production again, to china. The "B" series is already made in china.

If true, I would expect some disruption while they get the move done, and a possible learning curve as production gets going. The Vietnamese were "qualified" to make nearly all the stuff at the time of the big layoff. Now there is nobody to do the detail checkouts of sample units that were done before, and which are very necessary.

But I obviously am not connected-in where I would KNOW what was up. If I was, I probably would not be talking about it yet....!

Per construction issues:

The construction referred to as "hard-soldered" in a previous post (control pots soldered on PWB) CAN be a problem, but does not HAVE to be.

There are several ways to do it.

The worst way is to have pots with no panel nuts, and support the board on the pot shafts and the jacks only. That is typical for small stuff, like effects. Major stresses from vibration and handling, and a good chance of problems over time.

Another way is the pots with no panel nuts, BUT supporting the board to the chassis on posts (standoffs). That can be as reliable as any other construction, but is more sensitive to abuse of the pots, since they transmit any "hits" direct to the board.

A third possibility is pots with panel nuts securing them to the chassis, but board supported on pots and jacks only. That is a lot more secure, and with a lightweight PC board can be decently reliable, although it is still sensitive to rough handling. Obviously any abuse of the pot or knob is transmitted to the chassis and not to the solder. There is a chance of a built-in stress if the alignments are not designed right, also.

The fourth possibility with soldered-in pots is pots with panel nuts AND the board supported on 'standoffs". That can be essentially as reliable as wired-in pots. It has only one real sensitivity, and that is to the entire chassis flexing, which can stress solder joints. Alignments can be an issue, but that is a design problem that can be avoided.

Obviously the method with the least stress is to have the pots off-board and wired to it, with all jacks likewise.

However, that method is not without problems. It doubles the total number of solder joints for pots and jacks. The wires are typically unsupported, and can stress solder due to weight and bending in assembly.

The wires can be sensitive to picking up noise. If there are a lot of pots and/or jacks, there are a lot of wires, and noise pickup may be significant.

Finally, the labor is far higher, and that tends to limit the method to the higher end and boutique products.
 
I've had the solder work redone on my late 90's Ampeg
B-2 combo but that was due to the stress of being banged
around on a lot of gigs over a matter of years. Overall it's
a good amp common to most U.S. made amps of the era.
What made the vintage stuff so durable was that the amp
makers used components that were up to military spec and
a lot of those electronic techs back then learned their trade
in the military or in some communications industry. With labor
being more affordable they could do all of the wonderful hand
wiring and heavy build quality and still keep production costs
in line.Those days are gone and you do pay for this level of
now botique build quality.
The lead free solder thing is certainly news to me and I hope
the factories that have to use it get the problems worked out
or we'll all be hunting down good amp techs just to make the
new stuff work.
 
All I know is that if I built something and it broke that quickly, I probably wouldn't be getting to many recomendations for more work.I sure hope that they do a better job with quality control in the future.
 
AND there IS the new "lead-free" solder that EVERYONE HAS TO USE. At least you have to if you want to sell in europe, or many other places. Everything made in china has to use it, china has a law about it, as does the EC. The US does not, yet, but it will shortly, almost without doubt.

The lead-free solder is going to fail. EVERYONE'S lead-free solder is going to fail. It just does not work like the old stuff, yet.

It's already here. Anything electronic sold in the European Union that is also marketed in the USA is made with lead-free solder, as of July 1, 2006.

We are entering the age of acceleration of throwaway electronics. Everything consumer electronics -- everything -- is going to decrease in reliability in the coming years.
 
There really is no such thing as "flex" solder......... ANY flexing of solder will "work harden" it and cause it to fracture faster. And NO solder joint SHOULD ever flex anyway.

There IS variation in the amount of solder used. That can affect the joint, if it is solder-starved, it will fail quickly with vibration. Like bass notes......

AND there IS the new "lead-free" solder that EVERYONE HAS TO USE. At least you have to if you want to sell in europe, or many other places. Everything made in china has to use it, china has a law about it, as does the EC. The US does not, yet, but it will shortly, almost without doubt.

The lead-free solder is going to fail. EVERYONE'S lead-free solder is going to fail. It just does not work like the old stuff, yet.

Lead free solder is NOT ALLOWED in avionics equipment, and that is for a reason. it is also not required for military, or for communications equipment, in other words, for anything that HAS to work.

IMO it is something of a scam, as it puts a (shorter) lifetime on equipment, and probably that is not what the writers of the law wanted. The "waste stream" will be filled with even more stuff that has failed, although a bit less lead will be in it.

Anyway, the point is that EVERYBODY has to use it, this one can't be blamed solely on Loud. But it IS an important quality issue that will affect the reliability of MOST new equipment.

I know I'm late to the party... but this is worth your reading time.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pulpit_20080221_004346.html