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Ampeg Heritage - 410HLF or 810... need advice from users!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Panek, Oct 10, 2013.


  1. Panek

    Panek

    Mar 20, 2009
    Warsaw, Poland
    Hey guys,

    so a while ago I started a thread where I poured out my life story and that I wanted an Ampeg cab for my Acoustic 370, but I wasn't sure which. After that thread some time passed and now I've got it narrowed down to the 410HLF and 810, both Heritage models.

    I do believe I have the transporation issues regarding a 810 figured out. If I pull the trigger on it, I will personally see how well it fits in our van with the help of a friend. If it's not a good fit, I can send it back and get a refund. I already asked the store, just need to be careful with it. Then it's back to the 410HLF, but right now I still have a choice...

    The problem is, I need a cab for a gig on October 25th, and I'll have the cash for either of them on the 15th. I need to pull the trigger then. Unfortunately, there is no way for me to play them before I buy, so I can't drag my trusty ol' amp and see which cab I like better. I have to decide sitting on my butt in front of my PC. The only Ampeg I've played before is the 410HE, borrowed at our rehearsal space for one night. I totally loved how it sounded and decided to get an Ampeg cab right then and there. Huge improvement over my lousy 2x15. Afterwards, I did my research and found the Heritage series to be the most interesting for me.

    The 810 I'd love to get because it's my personal dream when it comes to cabs and I've always looked up to 810's. The only concerns I have are the size, transportation issues and the sound. I wanna know from people who have 810's (especially the Heritage ones of couse) what can they say about the sound in their personal opinion and how do they move 'em around.

    I've read somewhere that some distance away from a sealed cab (10ft?) the low end starts to "dissipate" and cannot fill the whole room. Is this correct? I've been thinking about this, and I went to a show a couple of days ago where the bass player was rocking a Fender Jazz Bass with an Ampeg head (one of the SVT pro models I believe) and an unidentified 810 sitting in a transport case. This was in a huge tent in downtown Warsaw, with lots of PA support, and you pretty much couldn't hear the bass, especially the lower frequencies. I was standing near the guard rails in front of the stage. Of course I don't know how the EQ was set and I can't say I've ever trusted PA systems at large gigs (or even sound guys), but I can't say I was really impressed.

    Another concern I have which might sound stupid, but anyways I gotta ask - might the 810 be too big for some gigs? Sometimes we play in medium to large concert venues, but sometimes it's a gig at a club in an old basement, say 100-150 people. I began to think that a bigass 810 on a very small stage with my Acoustic 370 might be overkill. Of couse I never crank my amp up, in fact I barely ever go past 1.5 on the Volume knob, but I have this weird idea that even this might be too much for a small gig. Am I right to be concerned about this?

    I like the 410HLF because it's smaller, easier to transport and also because it's ported and supposedly gives out lots of boomy, punchy low end that I like. Problem is, I began to think that might be too much low end. How does it compare to a 810?

    When I play, I always roll off the tone a liiiiiiiitle bit on my Fender American Standard Precision Bass (now fitted with an SD Quarter Pound pickup - SPB-3), and I EQ the amp so that I'm definitely within lows and mids. I always cut the treble to my liking, depending on the situation and the gear at the gig. I've always felt that notes played on the G string on my bass kind of "stand out" too much and feel unnatural compared to the rest, so I've always tried to compensate on my gear.

    I know that both are and will be great cabs, but it's the only opportunity that I'll have for a very, very long while to get an 810, so I'm thinking about it and I'd love to pull the trigger, but then again I have doubts when it comes to the sound, and of course money is an issue too... the suspense is killing me!

    I need to know everyone's opinion and experience with both cabs. Every single detail about the sound. Especially how would they work in terms of my EQ preferences.

    Please, TalkBass! Your opinions matter greatly and WILL influence my decision. I apologize if my post seemed chaotic but I need to know everything before I pull the trigger on this. Thanks in advance for helping out.
     
  2. JellinWellen

    JellinWellen

    Oct 18, 2012
    Texas
    HLF has tons of lows, It is incredibly low focused. The 810 is like a classic sealed 810 would sound, very very mid focused.
     
  3. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Some folks prefer the huge low end of the 410hlf. I prefer the more rolled off low end of the 810e, and if you like the the 410he a lot, you will LOVE the Heritage 810e. The H810e sounds pretty much identical to the old flatback 810's from 69-73, long thought of as the best sounding 810 of them all (I have one of each, BTW) and handles way more wattage. Have not played the H410hlf, but I would expect the same level of improvement between the regular 410hlf and it.
     
  4. JP Morin

    JP Morin

    Mar 15, 2011
    Quebec
    it's not in the heritage serie but another option would be the classic 610hlf, great compromise between both world...

    I own a 410hlf too and I played several times on 410he and 810's, and the 610hlf is my go to cab. It has enough sub lows and big mid-bass burp too. I found myself cutting some midbass a little on my amp to tame the cab a bit for a more modern sound and definition. I must say I can hear myself better on stage with the 610 than the 410hlf, with the venue big front speakers rumble eating the subs on stage... (playing metal+ rock stuff) In this case a 810 may shine over a 410hlf...
     
  5. Panek

    Panek

    Mar 20, 2009
    Warsaw, Poland
    Thanks, I was looking into that, but I've got my mind set on Heritage cabs. They don't make the 610 in that series...

    Definitely some good advice on being able to hear myself on stage. That's important too. I've played gigs where I had to basically "feel" what I'm playing through vibrations on stage. On a recent 3-show tour I played my guitarist's old Peavey 1x15 cab with some unidentified blown speaker. We play old school hardcore punk and I really liked the distorted sound it made, but it was hard to be able to hear myself on stage during our last show. The first one we did was in a club in some decrepit basement and we played one hell of a gig, the last one we did in a "proper" music club and I couldn't hear myself properly and I couldn't turn up because then our vocalist said that it's too much and he can only hear my bass on stage. Our drummer doesn't hit that hard I guess, and our guitarist uses a Marshall Dual Super Lead JCM2000 with his own 2x12 cabinet or whatever the venue has. He wants to get a Marshall 4x12 in the future.

    I really liked the 410HE because it sounded like a HUGE improvement over my 2x15 cab. It was a while ago, but as far as I remember, there was a lot of deep end, just how I liked it, and everything seemed very articulate and there was a lot of punch to it, definitely made my bass stand out in our very small and crowded (PA'd singer, live drums, guitarist uses a Mesa Dual Rectifier with a 4x12 cab) rehearsal space.

    But that was the only Ampeg I've tried so far. Played gigs on SWR and other cabs, but I've got my mind set on Ampegs, especially the 410HLF and 810 Heritage. The more I hear about any of them, the better!
     
  6. First off , I prefer the sound of an 8 10 over a 4 10 but thats just me. You didnt say what kind of van you have but I have dealt with a couple different ones so here goes. Been a while but if I recall , you have to take both back seats out of a Caravan type van. The bumpers are pretty low so loading an 8 10 in is not too hard even for one person. Back the cab up to the van , tilt it back and slide it in on the runners. My son has an Astrovan and the 8 10 will fit nicely sideways in the side door with just a couple inches to spare so you get a pretty snug fit and dont have to worry about it bouncing side to side going down the road. Same loading technique as the caravan and I have loaded the 8 10 in his van by myself a couple times with no problem. Not bad for a 60 yr old fart huh? If you are dealing with a full size van you will have plenty of room no matter how you want to load it in.
     
  7. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    That's what I do with a Caravan.
     
  8. Panek

    Panek

    Mar 20, 2009
    Warsaw, Poland
    I love those old Caravans, and I'd like to have an Astrovan, but this is Europe, and we have a 1995 beat-up Ford Transit.

    I don't think that our Transit qualifies as a full-size van, but it's not a minivan either. I guess it's somewhere inbetween. We always ride with a 2+3+3 (front to back) seat configuration and we need every one of them for the band and our roadies, so taking out a row of seats is not an option. This leaves only the space in the back for packing our gear, and that would include the 810.

    When I measured that space with a tape measure it looked like the cab would be a very close fit either standing up or lying down and across. The second option would require the cab to lie face down and have everything else stacked on top of it. Our amps are placed at the front between the driver's and passenger's seats, and we keep our personal items under the seats,. In the back, that would leave the 810, the guitarist's cabinet (currently a 2x12, 4x12 in the future), the instruments (2 guitars, one bass), our drummer's gear (snare, cymbals and their stands).

    I'll try to figure that out when I buy the cab. Right now I want to know everything about how they sound!
     
  9. AdamR

    AdamR Supporting Member

    Sep 24, 2007
    Bethel CT
    If you like the He get the 810. The HLF sounds nothing like the He series.
     
  10. StuartV

    StuartV Finally figuring out what I really like Supporting Member

    Jul 27, 2006
    Manassas, VA
    Jimmy and Adam nailed it. The 410HE is going to sound a lot more like the 810 than the 410HLF.

    The 410HE is sealed, as is the 810. The 410HLF is ported, which is why it has the big, fat bottom end sound that it does.

    My experience with ported 410s (Ampeg HLF, Aguilar GS and Peavey Pro) is that they sound huge and awesome when you play them alone. But, when you play them in a band setting, the sound is much more prone to be pure mud because of the huge bottom end and lesser midrange (in comparison). On the other hand, a sealed cab (I use a Bergantino NV610) is more even (generally) and sounds much better* in a band setting.

    I am currently selling my Aguilar GS410 to buy an Ampeg Heritage 810, so my suggestion is (obviously) that you get the 810. :)

    *referring to how it sounds to the audience, not the player or the rest of the band.
     
  11. As for the sound , nothing I have heard sounds as good as an 8 10 (again , just my opinion) Now for the space restraints. The 8 10's are designed to be transported on their backs or standing up. Ampeg tolex in notoriously flimsy and tears quite easily (witness my 2 older cabs that are 3/4 tolex and 1/4 flat black paint.) I don't worry about these cabs getting scuffed up cause they are already pretty chewed up. If you are going to be laying these things down on their sides or face , I would highly recomend it be on a piece of carpet.Either that or get a good cover for it and even then expect the cover to get chewed up pretty quickly.
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I use a cover and blankets. Haven't got a tear or scuff yet in either.
     
    Sandyonbass likes this.
  13. Session1969

    Session1969

    Dec 2, 2010
    I've had my Heritage for a couple months or so and used it for all the gigs I've had since, small to medium, inside and outside. They sound awesome for small things. Not overbearing, just solid. The gig you spoke of that had alot of P.A. support but didn't have the bass loud enough sounds like a sound guy issue. Funny though, because I was talking with a soundguy over the summer and remember his opinion being that a Svt/810 combo was the only time he would sometimes take the bass out of the FOH because he (personally)felt they sound so good and full. I believe has was talking about an outdoor gig as well. Fact is though, if it wasn't loud enough, the sound guy should've fixed it because I cant see a one cab/amp competing with an enormous P.A. Plus, I'd be concerned about messing up the stage sound for my other members. It sucks when anyone is so loud that you can't hear your fellow players. This is a be all ,end all cab for me. I haven't even bothered looking in the amp/cab classified section of this forum since, btw, and I'm a total geek when it comes to that. I've also been hearing of guys preferring them over the Berg NV610. An almost unbelievable statement given the popularity and sound quality of Bergs. That really does say alot.

    I bought a cover for mine so I just roll it up to my 4 runner , tilt it backside into it from the bottom in one motion. Easy peasy !
     
  14. AmpegUSA

    AmpegUSA

    Jan 6, 2010
    Creative Manager/Copywriter/Social at Ampeg
  15. P Town

    P Town

    Dec 7, 2011
    Does anyone know if the speakers used in the SVT-810E/AV, and the Heritage SVT-810E are the same?
     
  16. Jheake

    Jheake

    Jan 21, 2010
    Gilbert az
    I have read that the difference is that the speakers in the Heritage are made by Eminence in the US.
     
  17. popgadget

    popgadget Supporting Member Commercial User

    Sep 4, 2005
    Eastern, PA USA
    Authorized Greenboy Designs Builder, Scabbey Road
    Works with a Prius as well.
     
  18. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    They are not. The Chinese Eminence speakers in the regular 810e are as good as any of the good SLM speakers and better than the ones made from 2000-2006, but the Heritage speakers were made to get as close to the original flatback CTS speakers as possible. They're considered by many to be the best sounding speakers for an 810 ever. But the USA Heritage Eminences match them tonally and surpass them in power handling by a longshot.
     

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