Ampeg Micro VR issues poll with new video

[TRichardsbass]

No offense meant at all, but you really need to go back and read the multiple threads on this issue. A lot of the questions and things you're saying to try have been tried.

Ray, I must have missed the specific post of someone discussing a single 4 ohm cabinet. A lot of the discussions are about two 8 ohm cabs from different makers.

I was just curious about what a single 4 ohm load would do. As an engineer with some time having to deal with switched power supplies (small brick, high power) and the idiosynchricies they can sometimes create that are not intuitive I like to get as much info as possible.

And Fenderhutz, I'm not ignoring your posts. I KNOW Ampeg has found a fix and is sending it to you. Again, this is for technical knowledge.

I'm sure many of you all know that the Holy Grail of bass amps, the B-15 of early Ampeg fame, was designed without a choke and never had one in the design. It was only after Jess Oliver left and started spending time making his own amps that he realized he needed one and added it to his amps, and had modded his personal B-15s with a choke as well. The choke design is definitely a better design, but lack of it was not a design flaw.

I'm just curious to see what the fix was and why for a curious issue....

 

[tombowlus]

Did they publish distortion figures at 4 ohms?

Yes, 259 watts at 4 ohms, 0.98% THD.

Tom.

 

[aborgman]

I'm sure many of you all know that the Holy Grail of bass amps, the B-15 of early Ampeg fame, was designed without a choke and never had one in the design. It was only after Jess Oliver left and started spending time making his own amps that he realized he needed one and added it to his amps, and had modded his personal B-15s with a choke as well. The choke design is definitely a better design, but lack of it was not a design flaw.

A choke based PS isn't necessarily a "better" design.

It's less noisy. It's more efficient. ...but it's also harder to get the PS to sag because of that.

I'd only call that a design flaw if the B-15 was unable to meet advertised power or noise specifications without a choke - and based on my testing of them, most actually exceed the rated specifications.

 

[JimmyM]

Good morning guys!

Just a question, has anyone tried the head with a single, 4 ohm cab?

Indeed. Once AB'd the head on my gig with my 69 SVT going into a 73 810. Worked like a champ. Did not even get warm.

 

[Slackerprince]

I tried the Micro and AV210 at GC and it had the buzzing issue.
I just assumed it had been abused by a lot of people.
Maybe, a symptom of the problems noted here.

S

 

[JimmyM]

It's called Talkbass. His remarks are sound. I've heard worse here bordering on Flat Earth Society.
If it can't measure up then it can't. If Ampeg has a fix cool. But really, they never tested it with two cabs? If so and they thought that distortion sounded good what does that say?
You do get what you pay for. Quality control and the selection of pro grade components make a pro amp. As a novelty that sounds surprisingly good it's cool. Gee, why defend a company that makes something then ships it when it's incapable of doing as advertised? If it's only a production run of certain units that can happen.
Ampeg has manupped but the rest of us can't have an opinion? They exist because some of us have been faithful owners for four decades plus.

I figure anyone can make a mistake. Not the first time it's happened in history, you know? And it also could have just been a recent thing due to a part supplier change or something like that...I don't know for sure, but I see Owen Biddle using a Micro VR with two cabs on Jimmy Fallon and he sounds good, so that's a possibility. I know a few guys at Ampeg through here and Facebook and their heart is in the right place. Honestly, I never saw a company try so hard to make up for being run into the ground by a previous adminstration. So I can cut them some slack. Not saying anyone else has to, but I'm going to.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm glad Ampeg seems to be fixing the issue...but...

Did they publish distortion figures at 4 ohms? Maybe this is exactly what it's supposed to sound like. It does sound like they have an issue here, but some of you are getting way too serous about an amp that was not, IMHO, intended to be serious.

This amp was issued as a LARK, IMHO - kind of a comical thing. It does sound pretty good, but I think you're expecting WAY too much from it. I didn't say it was a BAD amp, in fact I was very pleased with how close it sounds to an SVT when you don't push it. But, with the bass, it takes MAGNITUDES more power for peaks than other instruments, and this amp just can't handle getting pushed hard, so it clips. At 4 ohms, it clips really early, like all amps. And I didn't call it an out and out joke. But it IS right up there with the Acoustic 360 re-issue - I suppose people are taking that thing seriously as well...



It's a decent little am for a few hundred dollars. It looks very cheesy, and it is quite cheesy; I wouldn't expect much more than cheesy performance from something as lightweight as this. I personally wouldn't buy one, but if I did, I wouldn't expect anything more than I would out of any 100 watt (or so) Fender (or other) practice amp. And in the bass world, there's not a HUGE difference between 100 watts and 150...that's not even the equivalent 6db of boost on the tone controls.

And let me guess, Chef, I'm getting death threats because I said something BAD about Ampegs...

This is the bass world's equivalent of a fake fibreglass Ferrari body on a Volkswagen chassis, and then people are expecting Ferrari-like performance out of it. It's a good little amp for what it is; outstanding 4 ohm performance?...not likely.

Death threats???

Well you won't get any death threats from me for two reasons:

1. I don't work for Ampeg and don't really care.

2. I see guys like Owen Biddle from the Roots, Jared Followill from Kings Of Leon, and our own Johnny April from Staind using them in high dollar pro situations, as well as yours truly using them in medium-dollar pro situations, and I really don't expect those guys to use toys when they can afford pretty much anything they want.

3. You use 1000w for jazz trios at small lounges and say bad things about the B-15, which totally renders any opinions you might have about any other Ampeg products irrelevant. But assuming I did place any relevance onto your opinion, you yourself said it sounds really good. End of discussion.

 

[cataract]

Not to add to the total derailment of this thread, but I gotta say that I personally feel that the Micro VR is hands down the best "bang for your buck" micro head out there. I personally love the sound of an SVT, emulated or not, so maybe I'm biased.

I've only used it through a single 4 ohm 1x15 cabinet, with no problems to speak of.
I guess it could be LOUDER, but if I wanted louder- I wouldn't be playing a Micro VR.

It's awesome that Ampeg is looking into the problems some of us are having with this amp.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this remedying situation pans out!

 

[JimmyM]

I tried the Micro and AV210 at GC and it had the buzzing issue.
I just assumed it had been abused by a lot of people.
Maybe, a symptom of the problems noted here.

S

I think you just had a floor model that was beaten to death. The issue only happens with two 210av cabs.

 

[chadds]

Sounds like people are taking this personally. To me Ampeg did a great job of getting to it. Since some out there are fine ie. on Jimmy Fallon. It's probably a fault in a few. Suppliers can change manufacturing materials or processes and think they are staying in specs. Only time will tell. Ampeg isn't going to send out crap. If they do the market will respond.
Interesting how the venom comes out.
What does the amount of watts a person uses at a gig have to do with anything?

 

[JimmyM]

What does the amount of watts a person uses at a gig have to do with anything?

I don't know...ask Cameron. He's the one who's told me it's impossible to gig a B-15, even though I have

 

[BulbousMoses]

What does the amount of watts a person uses at a gig have to do with anything?

Yup..if you're playing the half-time show at the Super Bowl, maybe you need more than the Micro VR can deliver. Like you, I care not how many watts you are pumping out, only "Can I hear you?" and "Do you sound good?"

 

[Chef]

Maybe not though. There are plenty of huge acts/stadium shows where the guitar player is using a vintage fender twin and this amp would keep up fine.
Folks gots mics and PA systems, lots of times

 

[Seans]

I actually don't like amps running at 4 ohms because of the lack of headroom you get, even big separate power amps (like my old Bryston 4B - it sounded better at >>8<< (edited) ohms, as well, and it had GOBS of power), and the amount of distortion and compression that's going on. 8 ohms is a clean, balanced load...4 ohms and you're getting into reactive territory, and things get ugly - fast!


Cheers,
Cameron

Sorry couldn't resist, some 210AV content though........

Hitting 2 ohms is the kind of reactive territory that seriously kicks.

 

[Bassflute]

Agreed....everyone is entitled to an opinion (although I don't see anywhere in the thread where Cameron states he has tried this rig out). Opinions aside, I'll go back to a previous post and simply say that this thread started as a poll asking what (if any) issues people with the Ampeg Micro VR and 2 SVT210AV cabs were having. By that criteria, I shouldn't even be posting here because I don't have that setup. But yes, this is TalkBass and people will chime in. Cameron has made it clear that he doesn't like this amp. Fine, no problem. But some people that DO like it have had an issue with a setup that Ampeg says should work fine.. Personally, I applaud fenderhutz for doing the work and getting a company like Ampeg to stand up straight and take notice. Makes the world better for everyone.. except Cameron, apparently

From my first post:

" I used one for a practice amp at the Canadian Rockies Bass Bash, just me and a drummer. It was BARELY loud enough. You could do quiet gigs, but I was hitting the limit all the time. "

How on EARTH can you take something that looks like THIS seriously?

I laughed out loud the first time I saw it. I said 'that's so cute'. Get a grip you guys, it's a cute little $600.00 amp, and that's full retail. It sounds pretty good for a practice amp; you could mike it in the studio and it would sound all fluffy and slightly overdriven just like the SVT does. You guys are WAY too serious about this thing.

I won't say anything else about it...too many ******* around here. Good luck with your toy amp...

Children...



Sheesh...

Cameron

 

[Bassflute]

I don't know...ask Cameron. He's the one who's told me it's impossible to gig a B-15, even though I have

I gigged with one for about four years in the 70's...B15S, with an Altec Lansing speaker...BARELY made it in the days before PA support...farting and crapping out ALL THE TIME, and that was the 60 watt. The B15N, 30 watts on a good day, with no PA, you better have a VERY sympathetic drummer/guitarist, or are into SERIOUS distortion.

Cameron

 

[Chef]

Not everyone plays in bands as loud as yours apparently are.

 

[BulbousMoses]

Maybe not though. There are plenty of huge acts/stadium shows where the guitar player is using a vintage fender twin and this amp would keep up fine.
Folks gots mics and PA systems, lots of times

Really? Well, school me, why don't ya! This is good news in case I ever get the Super Bowl gig!

 

[TRichardsbass]

Really? Well, school me, why don't ya! This is good news in case I ever get the Super Bowl gig!

Bulbous, one thing you see more and more these days is understage amp miking. Geddy Lee from Rush, as we all know, has rotisserie chicken cookers behind him on stage as he is wireless to the board and also wireless to the amp, which is under the stage and miked.

In the not too distant future it would not surprise me if you went to a kick butt concert and the bass player was using one of those Roland Micro Cube Bass RX's mic'd under the stage and you thought the guy's sound was huge and great.

I listen to the video Roland has and the darn little 2.5W X 2 amp has great emulators and an amazingly great sound for a tiny ### amp. Made me stop and think about it for two days, I swear. I hate recording bass direct, and the Cube would suddenly open up some possibilities.

Then, of course, I remembered Larry likes me....

But yes, in today's stadium concert sound, with all the players having IEMs, you can use an original B-15 mic'd and with the stadium PA get thought of as booming.

 

[BulbousMoses]

Bulbous, one thing you see more and more these days is understage amp miking. Geddy Lee from Rush, as we all know, has rotisserie chicken cookers behind him on stage as he is wireless to the board and also wireless to the amp, which is under the stage and miked.

In the not too distant future it would not surprise me if you went to a kick butt concert and the bass player was using one of those Roland Micro Cube Bass RX's mic'd under the stage and you thought the guy's sound was huge and great.

I listen to the video Roland has and the darn little 2.5W X 2 amp has great emulators and an amazingly great sound for a tiny ### amp. Made me stop and think about it for two days, I swear. I hate recording bass direct, and the Cube would suddenly open up some possibilities.

Then, of course, I remembered Larry likes me....

But yes, in today's stadium concert sound, with all the players having IEMs, you can use an original B-15 mic'd and with the stadium PA get thought of as booming.

Then what is the upside of running a 1500 watt rig that weighs 200 pounds? I guess if you don't or can't use an IEM and PA support...can't think of any other reason.