• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Ampeg or Eden??

Status
Not open for further replies.
#41
Yes I agree with what you are all saying here too... BUt here's something I want you guys to think about. I have found most of the sound I'm getting is from the SPEAKER CABS and not the coloring from the amplifier. Sure I tweak the tone knobs slightly off center but I'm hearing my JAZZ and the whomp of hitting the speakers hard.

Sure a Marshall is a Marshall and an Ampeg is an Ampeg, but if you dont crank the Vintage SVT all the way to the moon it doesn't get really dirty either. If thats what you're looking for then that is what you will need to get that sound...

I was listening to some Grand Funk clips the other night and was listening to Mel play away. That guy has been my hero since I was in 8th grade, a great natural rock bassist I've tried to emulate the best I can.

He played a 4 cab WEST LABS 200 watt head stack and that thing had its tongue hung way the heck out there to get it to sound that way. He plays a pair of CL's and 2- 810's now.

While I love his playing, I have to really think hard if that was the sound I had been trying to emulate, nope it isnt. Its not that different than my 67 bassman cranked up to 7... ISH. BOB
 
#43
I don't know why I bother-
Sorta like "The Day the Earth Stood Still"....
where... oh never mind.:D

I guess there's a lot of arena rock-stars posting that have TRIED to use their Ampegs in a stage setting, and , well..the amps didn't cut it.

But then again, when I was blessed to play at the New Orleans Heritage Festival (well, not "blessed"; I earned it.)
I was on one of the smaller stages, playing with a local Louisiana Reggae-Old Funk original band; it was a BLAST.
Now let's never mind that I, a mere working man used my V4BH a measly 100-tube watt piddling little amp-
Oh, yeah, through the Festival FOH; hey it worked! I got heard and mixed! I'll be damned!

But let's forget about me, cause I was truly fortunate to go backstage on one of the BIG stages, and watch from the wings, and later meet-
George Porter JR. with the Funky Meters, using his 4-PRo and a 'Fridge I believe...also through the FOH, and by the 1,000's and I mean 1,000's of people grooving their little and big buttz off to the sound of these guys, who define POCKET-
Son of a gun, I guess the ole 4-PRO found a way to do it's job.

I don't care if the OP uses Ampeg or eden or MarkBass or Thunderfunk, or GK, or Behringer.

I'm just AMAZED at the vast number of arena-playin' touring starz who can't find their voice with a 4-PRO. Wow.
Lucky ole George, he found a way.....:hiding:
 
#45
Casey 2 said:
LOL
'Deal you crack me up!

I know you are the "Ampeg Police" (listed in the Ampeg club), but you are NEVER gonna get through to those that don't get it...
Now I've HEARD you, with your 3-PRO, and it rocked the house, and bruddah, it was more than loud enough for me...After I left the room, I STILL heard the bass on my way to the elevator-
We talked about sound reinforcement, choice of the head for the TONE, and how as you put it, it's "all in the mix"..

Still- same ole/same ole.

I luv it!:hyper:
Click to expand...


Yep.:crying:
:D
 
#46
rbonner said:
Yes I agree with what you are all saying here too... BUt here's something I want you guys to think about. I have found most of the sound I'm getting is from the SPEAKER CABS and not the coloring from the amplifier. Sure I tweak the tone knobs slightly off center but I'm hearing my JAZZ and the whomp of hitting the speakers hard.
Click to expand...

+1



I run Ampeg through Eden cabs and it sounds quite nice. It's not set flat as many of the Eden users claim to have theirs, but that doesn't make the Ampeg a bad sounding head either. My SVP can be set flat and still have a good tone, I just prefer the sound that comes out of it better after I do a bit of tweeking here and there.
 
#50
rbonner said:
JimBob, what and the heck do you mean by its too much on the Solid State Side of the HYBRID Equasion? Is it because it has a solid state amplifier in there? Hybrid is supposed to mean tubes and solid state.

Its got an SVP-PRO preamp screwed to a SVP-1500 amp. Now it does have a hell of a lot of features no other amp until then had. Stereo, built in crossover all the stuff complex systems might need. They went way out there to give us an amp with features. Is that what you meant by too solid state? Dont use the features....

Does it not have enough tubes in the preamp section for you? It has three and they all line up real nice on the preamp board. Does it need six? I think three works just fine. Then it goes to the final and they're all FET's in two rows on the solid state amplifier board.

The SVT-8PRO if we ever see them, is the VINTAGE REISSUE preamp bolted to a very simple 2500 Watt digital amp, now that might be too solid state too, but it still is a HYBRID. Even one more tube if that was whats needed and all those extra features are lopped off. Instead of looking like a PA amp on the back it looks like a CARVIN. I'm suprised they put two speaker jacks on the back its so void.

I guess I just don't get your definition.

When pushed a bit I get the sound I was looking for. To the guy who pushed his amp until it clips, thats what the little LED in the preamp is for. The output limiter also keeps the amp from clipping. I dont use that myself as I'm busting sheetrock with the limiter defeated here without clipping.

For those who have had the amps SHUT DOWN, you aren't providing enough airflow to the head by enclosing it too tightly in the rack. We here on the eastern border of the western frontier call that a safety feature.

Thats why I say all used SVT-4PRO's are abused, nobody uses them right and then slams the amplifier. Thats not very fair to the company or the reputation of the unit. Sure they've had production issues, and the long delays on the 8PRO are proof they've had issues with the 8PRO, but arent releasing it again until all the fires are put out.

Yeah Loud is screwing up their image, but not all of the products are crap.

BOB
Click to expand...

Bob,

What I meant was the 4 Pro only has 3 pre-amp tubes. Also, I'm pretty sure the 3 Pro has basically a SVP-Pro front end with 5 tubes. Thus my statement about the 4 Pro being too much on the 'solid state side' of the equasion. And assuming all of that is fair to say here, then it probably doesn't matter 'tone wise' a whole lot when comparing the Eden to the 4 Pro. (Only problem I never played an Eden and don't even know if it has a tube compliment/pre-amp section.)

Does that make any sense (?).

Again, just trying to talk 'tone'. Not headroom, features, etc, etc..


Jimbob
 
#51
Again, just trying to talk 'tone'. Not headroom, features, etc, etc..

WARNING! WARNING!
You're talking about TONE?!!?
TONE??!

NO- We MUST talk about how underpowered Ampegs are-
How, How I play at the large Baseball Stadiums, and my
4-PRO, 3-PRO, 6-PRO, 8---(hey kinda rhythmic) cannot be heard 'cause MY guitarist uses a Marshall !!!!

TONE? !! What is TONE??

Besides, Eden/GK/ Genz-Benz is BEtter, so there!

JimBob, I was joking.

Of course, IMO/IME Ampeg is all about tone, and that's why they have all those pre-amp tubes lighting up inside the amp- They warm and shape the tone that no matter how you tweak the knobs on your Eden, will not be voiced like an Ampeg.

And some players don't like that tone, or can't /don't utilize it very well. FIne. OK.

And some people are pi**ed at LOUD, because they would run Ampeg better if they owned it. I'm sure they could.

But IMO/IME LOUD didn't redesign the circuits, so that not counting, Ampegs still have Ampeg tone.
Mine happen to be SLM, and Boy, do they sound like Ampegs.

George Porter Jr. and I had a couple things in common-
We both like to get FUNKY (he's a lot funkier than me & I'm pretty damn funky!),
We both enjoy an imported Beer after our sets, we both really like crawfish and red-beans-and rice, and gumbo,
and we both use and really dig our Ampegs-
Also, the amps are both quite loud enoough for us in performance.

:hiding:

Yep.
 
#52
realdeal said:
Again, just trying to talk 'tone'. Not headroom, features, etc, etc..

WARNING! WARNING!
You're talking about TONE?!!?
TONE??!

NO- We MUST talk about how underpowered Ampegs are-
How, How I play at the large Baseball Stadiums, and my
4-PRO, 3-PRO, 6-PRO, 8---(hey kinda rhythmic) cannot be heard 'cause MY guitarist uses a Marshall !!!!

TONE? !! What is TONE??

Besides, Eden/GK/ Genz-Benz is BEtter, so there!

JimBob, I was joking.

Of course, IMO/IME Ampeg is all about tone, and that's why they have all those pre-amp tubes lighting up inside the amp- They warm and shape the tone that no matter how you tweak the knobs on your Eden, will not be voiced like an Ampeg.

And some players don't like that tone, or can't /don't utilize it very well. FIne. OK.

And some people are pi**ed at LOUD, because they would run Ampeg better if they owned it. I'm sure they could.

But IMO/IME LOUD didn't redesign the circuits, so that not counting, Ampegs still have Ampeg tone.
Mine happen to be SLM, and Boy, do they sound like Ampegs.

George Porter Jr. and I had a couple things in common-
We both like to get FUNKY (he's a lot funkier than me & I'm pretty damn funky!),
We both enjoy an imported Beer after our sets, we both really like crawfish and red-beans-and rice, and gumbo,
and we both use and really dig our Ampegs-
Also, the amps are both quite loud enoough for us in performance.

:hiding:

Yep.
Click to expand...


realdeal, LOL!!!

+1, yeah, I bought the 3 pro for max. headroom, LOL!!!!

BTW, don't forget the fried catfish....!!!!!!! Good stuff in these parts!!

Happy Holidays, all!

Jimbob
 
#53
...actually if I had thought it thru a bit more, I really should stand corrected here...hehe. I mean, as an example, look at other all-tube amps, like Traynor. That one is voiced a bit 'higher' that the traditional SVT, right (?). So accordingly, I'm sure other folks would argue just as you pointed out or at least alluded to, that manuf. 'voicing' (ie, transformers, curcuitry, etc.) also has alot to do with with that illusive thing....called tone. (Whether it's in a hybrid or all-tube or whatever, I'm not sure it matters-manuf./design 'voicing' that-is.)

Nother subject, but unless you can take your bass to the store, connect the two different heads to the same cab's, and run them flat..well it's a best guess scenario sometimes. But then again, I just run my stuff flat and if it sounds good to my ears, I go with it. To this end, I remember reading here a long time ago about that same logic relative to buying a bass (ie, the difference in tone when running say a p or J direct into the PA equipment to see which one sounds better/to one's liking).

Sorry I'm babbling, don't mean to de-rail the OP concerns.

Jimbob
 
#55
cassanova said:
Mind if I ask why you'll only buy used Ampeg stuff?
Click to expand...
Because LOUD, as I mentioned before, is a scumbag company that puts out crap that doesn't work, redesigns stuff to where it doesn't work in order to save 3c per unit, and fires people who have worked hard at trying to control the damage for them at Christmastime. It is my hope that they get put out of business and their board of directors come down with a rare form of jock itch that turns their units black. Then maybe a decent company will buy the Ampeg name and put out good stuff again.
 
#56
BassScum said:
Don't buy the SVT 4 pro. I played through one for 9 years. I thought it sounded okay but was never completely happy, but then I got the LMII and boy what a difference. It blows the svt 4 pro away in tone and volume and thats through an svt 8x10. The svt 4 pro just doesn't have the volume you would expect from the advertised power. It has all the bells and whistles but I really didn't need that . It also cost > $1000. And by the way mine was made by SLM.
Click to expand...

+1

I've played through Eden before (a mate's, I think it was a WT Pro with 410 cab) and it was fantastic. Now own an LMII with standard 410HR cab. Man that thing is so clean and sooooo LOUD!! I've hooked up the LMII to an Ampeg 810 and barely had it at 9 o'clock before it swamped out the stage sound.

I play a lot of rock though, so I use a SansAmp BDDI to get all the punch and grit I could want. The Bass Centre in Melbourne (Australia) said that the Markbass vs. Eden scenario is basically tonal options over clean transparency and volume. 300 watts on an Eden is nothing like 300 watts on a Markbass. And with a Stingray I have a lot of tonal options to begin with plus the SansAmp so I didn't need even more tonal options with my amp, I wanted lightweight power with impressive eq response that merely presents all my bass tone rather than colouring it, so I chose Markbass.


Sorry if this sounds like a rant about my own gear and sound, I'm just really happy with it and thought maybe there might be something in there for you to at least consider.


edit: I've never played through Mesa but our guitarist does (along with a 1980 Les Paul) and it sounds amazing. Plus, Justin Chancellor from Tool does (along with Gallien-Krueger these days), so that always gets the thumbs up in my book ;)
 
#57
Rog there Jimbob, got what you are saying, just needed a clairification. My rant was in response to everybody's post. We're busy on a different thread questioning LOW preamp output... The AMPEG preamps don't put out industry standard signals, they are LOW, the power amps take non-industry standard input signals. SO for the best match you need an AMPEG pre and an AMPEG power amp.

This sort of stuff really irritates me. I dont know if that is a fact, but Jerrold was saying the SVP-PRO/ CL's had low output. I also notice I need to crank the gains to 3/4 open to even drive itself with my 4PRO's

My TA Audio 5051 preamp and my Peavey CS800S are both industry standard and have enough gain to melt themselves. The 5051 is doing it with 3 tubes too.

My problem is, I wanted to add a couple PA amps to my stack and drive them from the 4PRO preamps. I may not be able to do this.

Like Jimmy, I'm getting a little irritated myself and when I get irritated I get really really surely...

First was the 4PRO was supposed to drive two cabs, it doesn't adiquately. This doubled my amplifier requirements. Now I'm having issues getting enough preamp drive.

They are great devices for what they are meant to be, but get a little out of the box with your crayon and you're screwed. Shame on you PEG. BOB
 
#59
...Bob, not to 'de-rail' too terribly bad, but if it helps, I think Jerrold said there was a post production mod and fix for the low output. Didn't know if you were awares. I got lucky on mine (svp-cl) and it only clips when I run my Roscoe 18v Barts. (It won't even clip at 5:00 gain when using my 18v. Jazz wid-open.)

(Actually, I wished it clipped a little sooner-go figure.)

Jimbob
 
#60
One thing's for sure - most Ampeg threads are sure to bring about a hissy fit towards anyone daring enough to take a poke at their fanboi's pride and joy...

As for the OP: neither - Genz-Benz, G-K, and Mesa all make a better product with honest power ratings, reliability, and excellent customer service - can't say that about either Ampeg or Eden...



- georgestrings
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back