ampeg outsourcing

[David A. Davis]

I'm also on a budget. From what I can see. Ampeg did nothing to lower their price when they started outsourcing there stuff to Asia. The Fender version of the bass I just bought goes for $1600. I paid $300. If an American made SVT CL was $1600, what should an SVT CL made in the same country as my bass (Asia) sell for?

 

[FenderP]

If you absolutely have to have Ampeg, you're a lot better off getting a used SVT 3 Pro than a B2RE/SVT 450H (same amp, different boxes). The B2RE's bad reviews are correct, but the 3 Pro is a pretty good amp. But if you just want Ampeg tone and aren't worried about the name on the label, get a Markbass LMII. It's as close to a clean-running SVT tube head as you can get with solid state.

I agree the newer Ampeg stuff is not what it used to be - US or made elsewhere - but I tried one of the Mark Bass Jeff Berlin combos today and was underwhelmed given the amount of praise they get. Poor tone all around, and I'm usually a 15" guy and don't need a tweeter.

I had to spend 30 minutes tweaking to even get a reasonable sound. I can see why some people may like 'em, but IMO all amps just need bass/treble/volume.

YMMV of course. Depending on someone's budget, look at all of your options.

 

[Craig_S]

I had to spend 30 minutes tweaking to even get a reasonable sound. I can see why some people may like 'em, but IMO all amps just need bass/treble/volume.

That's pretty close to my thinking, as well. If the amp doesn't sound good enough flat, I don't care for it. You shouldn't have to tweak it a lot to get a decent tone.

I think I need to check out some of the Mark Bass stuff.

 

[Gearhead43]

I'm also on a budget. From what I can see. Ampeg did nothing to lower their price when they started outsourcing there stuff to Asia.

I think that says it all, Daddybass.

Why ? One reason: GREED.

Maximum profit for minimum investment. They don't give a crap about quality anymore.

I for one think that it's disgusting what is happening to the Ampeg name.

It used to be that the name Ampeg meant quality bass amplification, yes it was expensive too, but you used to be able to depend on it night after night. Now all I hear about from other unfortunate musicians is how crappy the new stuff is.

If Ampeg sticks to this "business model" they won't be around much longer.

 

[rbonner]

Just like what Jimmy said... They have clouded the "B" line B-15 whatever with second class "B grade" products B2R for instance. Not B stock that is repaired and sold as new.

Ampeg had some issues with manufacturing when they first started taking the products overseas to manufacture... From what I hear they had considerable issues with cold solder joints. This can be a really frustrating thing to repair. You find yourself resoldering by hand all the joints. All because a manufacturer didn't have the flows and heat correct when running the boards.

I'd say they have those issues ironed out by now. I have 4 SVT-4PRO's here the oldest one is USA made, (Its also the one that has had an issue I've had to fix) The next one bought was a Vietnam, then a Korea and the last a Vietnam. All of the foreign ones purchased this year. The Asian units have been flawless and work just like and sound just like the USA. Whoops no the USA has some really microphonic Groove tubes in the preamp I will have to replace.

Of my 810E CABs three are Asian and one USA, the 215E is a new USA but I havent picked it up yet. Found it new in a music store out west. I have zero complaints against the Cabinets. They do a nice job, total Ampeg quality.

Its just woodworking and asians are great when it comes to wood working, they can take their time and do it right. My wife has a hand carved Indonesian throne. Wow what craftsmanship.

The parts all come from Ampeg's suppliers; wherever they are from...

You guys dont know much about me personally except what I type. This charge to the Asian manufacturing market is driven by the need to lower manufacturing costs obviously. The American worker expects $$$ things, healthcare, other benefits. Stuff Ampeg doesn't have to pay to a foreign contractor.

This current economic crash is powered by balance of trade. (Manufacturing and oil) Let them try and BS us with banking and home loans; that was an effect not the cause they want you to think. Pointing a finger at a handful of companies and not the whole USA / Foreign manufacturing crisis thats been dogging us for 60 years!!!! The Balance of trade issue has been directly in the news since about 1968-1970. It's just that nobody in the "DO" was listening.

***I deleted a bunch here***

Ah My friends, AMPEG will survive, its the USA that will not. BOB

 

[FenderP]

That's pretty close to my thinking, as well. If the amp doesn't sound good enough flat, I don't care for it. You shouldn't have to tweak it a lot to get a decent tone.

I think I need to check out some of the Mark Bass stuff.

Yup. Any piece of gear - including the Ampeg B-15R which really wasn't even close to the old B-15 line - which I have to fiddle to get a sound, forget it. When I can get my sound in a matter of seconds or a minute or two, it's a keeper. The SVP-CL, TV pre, VT Bass, and Linden EQ are great examples of that.

Honestly, that was the hallmark of a lot of the old vintage Ampeg stuff - you could just plug in and get a good sound. They built their reputation on those products and it's kinda sad to see where they are now. Do they still have some good products? Absolutely. Are they few and far between now? Yes.

I went into the Mark Bass thinking it'd be amazing. I wanted to like it.

 

[JimmyM]

I agree the newer Ampeg stuff is not what it used to be - US or made elsewhere - but I tried one of the Mark Bass Jeff Berlin combos today and was underwhelmed given the amount of praise they get. Poor tone all around, and I'm usually a 15" guy and don't need a tweeter.

I had to spend 30 minutes tweaking to even get a reasonable sound. I can see why some people may like 'em, but IMO all amps just need bass/treble/volume.

I kind of like the two mid controls, though. I also half agree with you about the Berlin combo. I thought my Mini CMD121P actually sounds better. However, I like the Markbass cab signature sound...works excellently in a mix, so my opinion of the Berlin is more favorable than yours.

But I totally understand your opinion. If you search on threads about Markbass cabs, you'll notice that they're a love it or hate it thing. There is absolutely no middle ground with them. The LMII in their combos is another story, though. I haven't seen this much love for a head since Ampeg released the B-15 in 1960.

 

[JimmyM]

Just like what Jimmy said... They have clouded the "B" line B-15 whatever with second class "B grade" products B2R for instance. Not B stock that is repaired and sold as new.

Mi malo, Bob. I misquoted you.

Ampeg had some issues with manufacturing when they first started taking the products overseas to manufacture... From what I hear they had considerable issues with cold solder joints. This can be a really frustrating thing to repair. You find yourself resoldering by hand all the joints. All because a manufacturer didn't have the flows and heat correct when running the boards.

According to Jerrold Tiers, the cold solders started happening back in the 90's when the US gov't outlawed leaded solder for use in any manufacturing except military applications. They were finally able to overcome the problem, but it took a while. I don't know what the deal is with the solder used overseas, though I imagine they don't hold the manufacturers to the same standards. I have seen the complaints about Vietnamese Ampeg products decline on here, though, so it looks like they're ironing out the kinks. At least I hope they are.

Ah My friends, AMPEG will survive, its the USA that will not. BOB

That's encouraging

 

[rbonner]

Yeah Jerrold would be in the know about manufacturing issues and time frames at Ampeg.

Unfortunately this sort of stuff wavers customer's confidence. The Internet has been a good source of data for buyers, but also a good source for the rumor mill too. That sort of stuff is probably killing Ampegs sales due to the "Vibes" emminating from places like TB. My stuff tells me things are once again trustworthy. You never know tho, the next box might explode and kill everybody in the room.

On the USA comment. Yeah its all come to a nasty head hasn't it? Funny how like the Internet the news media controls the propaganda machine. Believe 1/8th of everything you hear and know somebody is always trying to influence your mind... Its got to be the Martians. BOB

 

[FenderP]

I kind of like the two mid controls, though. I also half agree with you about the Berlin combo. I thought my Mini CMD121P actually sounds better. However, I like the Markbass cab signature sound...works excellently in a mix, so my opinion of the Berlin is more favorable than yours.

But I totally understand your opinion. If you search on threads about Markbass cabs, you'll notice that they're a love it or hate it thing. There is absolutely no middle ground with them. The LMII in their combos is another story, though. I haven't seen this much love for a head since Ampeg released the B-15 in 1960.

I think it's just different strokes for different folks. I bet I may like the BA600/115 using the vintage channel, but who knows. Hated the B-15R. Like the SVP-CL. Both use a 12AX7 like the BA600.

What's funny is that the LMII (well, the one in the combo isn't marked LMII but is) is universally liked, but I just hated it. Maybe it would sound better on its own played through something else, but I think my history of setups proves I'm more of a simple guy, and more knobs = worse tone for me. I honestly doubt I'd like the LMII any better out of that Berlin combo.

As I said, I can totally with no question see the value in what Mark Bass brings to the table. Solidly, well-built equipment for a reasonable price - not much to argue about.

 

[will33]

I think it's just different strokes for different folks. I bet I may like the BA600/115 using the vintage channel, but who knows. Hated the B-15R. Like the SVP-CL. Both use a 12AX7 like the BA600.

What's funny is that the LMII (well, the one in the combo isn't marked LMII but is) is universally liked, but I just hated it. Maybe it would sound better on its own played through something else, but I think my history of setups proves I'm more of a simple guy, and more knobs = worse tone for me. I honestly doubt I'd like the LMII any better out of that Berlin combo.

As I said, I can totally with no question see the value in what Mark Bass brings to the table. Solidly, well-built equipment for a reasonable price - not much to argue about.

You might like the hartke LH500 or whatever it is. Threads about that on here. Simple controls, very few knobs and a "tube-like" sound. Has sort of peaked my interest but don't know of a place around here to go hear one although I haven't checked everywhere.

 

[FenderP]

You might like the hartke LH500 or whatever it is. Threads about that on here. Simple controls, very few knobs and a "tube-like" sound. Has sort of peaked my interest but don't know of a place around here to go hear one although I haven't checked everywhere.

I've never liked Hartke stuff. Ever. Worse than GK in my book. I owned a GK back in the day.

The only reason I was auditioning is that my Bergantino IP112 is down for the moment and I have a gig in two weeks so I need a temporary solution without dragging out my old and heavy Ampeg stuff which isn't loud enough.

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

The no-lead solder is a EUROPEAN deal, the US has nothing to do with it.

And it was as of July 2006, not in the 90's, so the switchover started in 2005.

But there were some solder issues at one time, when a different type solder, recommended by the solder makers, of course, was used...... That might have been middle 90s......

Yah, the rumor mill...... and SLM's bad bad discussion forum. I howled and hollered, and finally made a deal, I'd keep on top of TB, if Tommy Wilson, the product manager, would clean up the discussion forum. I did, he didn't, and it got closed.

There was a lot of misinformation going around at both places.

 

[will33]

I've never liked Hartke stuff. Ever. Worse than GK in my book. I owned a GK back in the day.

The only reason I was auditioning is that my Bergantino IP112 is down for the moment and I have a gig in two weeks so I need a temporary solution without dragging out my old and heavy Ampeg stuff which isn't loud enough.

The new hartke LH stuff reportedly doesn't sound anything like what you think of as hartke.

Search Kjung, hartke LH500 here.

 

[FenderP]

The new hartke LH stuff reportedly doesn't sound anything like what you think of as hartke.

Search Kjung, hartke LH500 here.

I did search before. But you didn't read what I posted. I'm not looking for a new head. I'm not in the market for anything close to the LH500 or LH1000.

 

[Stacknobuser]

...Yah, the rumor mill...... and SLM's bad bad discussion forum. I howled and hollered, and finally made a deal, I'd keep on top of TB, if Tommy Wilson, the product manager, would clean up the discussion forum. I did, he didn't, and it got closed...

No fair taking shots at Tommy. Those threads got pretty nasty concerning countries of origin and had no place in enlightened discussion.:scowl:

 

[will33]

I did search before. But you didn't read what I posted. I'm not looking for a new head. I'm not in the market for anything close to the LH500 or LH1000.

Sorry, didn't catch that, just throwing around ideas, opinions on new stuff (and old) I guess.

 

[JimmyM]

The no-lead solder is a EUROPEAN deal, the US has nothing to do with it.

And it was as of July 2006, not in the 90's, so the switchover started in 2005.

But there were some solder issues at one time, when a different type solder, recommended by the solder makers, of course, was used...... That might have been middle 90s......

Yeah, I knew you said something about solder problems in the 90's. Got the timelines and countries wrong for the no-lead solder, but hey, I'm not on trial

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

No fair taking shots at Tommy

No shot intended........

He didn't have available the time it would take, and nobody else took any responsibility...... It was just a bad idea, since the lack of any visible moderator for months just made the whole thing no more than a huge black eye for SLM and Ampeg.

It became a forum for all the folks who wanted to vent. And one or two specially persistent site trolls made it really unmanageable without nearly hour-by-hour moderation..

You of all people should oughtta know.......

 

[will33]

Even cheapa$$ solder here is 60/40 tin/lead or vice versa. Funny how it only takes 3 words and 2 numbers to describe what it is but requires an entire paragraph saying "danger, danger" on the back. Even has instructions on what to do if ingested. Anyone dumb enough to eat solder deserves what they get. I think the cold solder thing has a lot more to do with bad technique than inferior product. They don't let things get hot enough before they hit it.