The PF-210HE is closer to the SVT-210AV and goes a bit lower IMO. The PF-112HLF is the perfect size for home use, and easier to move around though. Personally i prefer the sonic spectre of the 210's. I'd say they're a bit more midfocused and sounds tighter to my ears.
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The PF-210HE is closer to the SVT-210AV and goes a bit lower IMO. The PF-112HLF is the perfect size for home use, and easier to move around though. Personally i prefer the sonic spectre of the 210's. I'd say they're a bit more midfocused and sounds tighter to my ears.
Solid state watts and tube watts are exactly the same thing. When tubes reach their limit we tend to like the way they sound more than we do transistors so we perceive them as louder.
The PF50 is a 50 watt head and should do your studio work perfectly and could work on a relatively sensible gig (It's still only 50 watts at 4 ohms after all, when most bassist wont leave the house without a 500/800 watt head these days).
The v4b is 100 watts and would be overkill for your studio possibly. Some owners have found it lacks enough power on their gigs. (It's still only 100 watts at 4 ohms).
The Micro VR is 150 watts at 8 ohms and 250 watts at 4 ohms and should meet most small to medium volume gigs with the correct speakers. However if you really cant stand the always on Micro VR fan and want the best of Ampeg tube tone from an SVT pre amp equipped silent running amp then the PF50T is the way to go IMO. People rarely regret buying quality. Plus you'll have an amazing tube amp to try your 6 string guitars through.
I own a SVT all tube clone and can honestly say that tubes have a unique depth and presence at any volume that none of my other amps can match 100%.
The PF50 is a 50 watt head and should do your studio work perfectly and could work on a relatively sensible gig (It's still only 50 watts at 4 ohms after all, when most bassist wont leave the house without a 500/800 watt head these days).
The v4b is 100 watts and would be overkill for your studio possibly. Some owners have found it lacks enough power on their gigs. (It's still only 100 watts at 4 ohms).
The Micro VR is 150 watts at 8 ohms and 250 watts at 4 ohms and should meet most small to medium volume gigs with the correct speakers. However if you really cant stand the always on Micro VR fan and want the best of Ampeg tube tone from an SVT pre amp equipped silent running amp then the PF50T is the way to go IMO. People rarely regret buying quality. Plus you'll have an amazing tube amp to try your 6 string guitars through.
I own a SVT all tube clone and can honestly say that tubes have a unique depth and presence at any volume that none of my other amps can match 100%.
You know what... I think I’ve reached a (potential) decision: if I’m going to go overboard and do something stupid, I might as well go balls deep and get a V-4B.
This should actually be quieter than the Micro VR, right? Toobz, no fan (I think?), and sexy as eff.
It certainly wouldn’t hurt that it also looks the business. I could use it with a single AV210 without breaking my brain and aim/hope to get another at some point in the future. A couple pictures stolen from other TB posts, hope that’s cool:
Not sure if this is something I would actually think about now or in the future, but I don’t think the price difference between that and a PF-50T with a new cabinet would be that big...and I can keep it in the (SVT) family and get something shiny out of it.
Scary thoughts, y’all...
Gary
This should actually be quieter than the Micro VR, right? Toobz, no fan (I think?), and sexy as eff.
It certainly wouldn’t hurt that it also looks the business. I could use it with a single AV210 without breaking my brain and aim/hope to get another at some point in the future. A couple pictures stolen from other TB posts, hope that’s cool:
Not sure if this is something I would actually think about now or in the future, but I don’t think the price difference between that and a PF-50T with a new cabinet would be that big...and I can keep it in the (SVT) family and get something shiny out of it.
Scary thoughts, y’all...
Gary
You know what... I think I’ve reached a (potential) decision: if I’m going to go overboard and do something stupid, I might as well go balls deep and get a V-4B.
This should actually be quieter than the Micro VR, right? Toobz, no fan (I think?), and sexy as eff.
It certainly wouldn’t hurt that it also looks the business. I could use it with a single AV210 without breaking my brain and aim/hope to get another at some point in the future. A couple pictures stolen from other TB posts, hope that’s cool:
Not sure if this is something I would actually think about now or in the future, but I don’t think the price difference between that and a PF-50T with a new cabinet would be that big...and I can keep it in the (SVT) family and get something shiny out of it.
Scary thoughts, y’all...
Gary
I have gigged my V4-B with 2 of the 210AV cabs several times and it has been great. Not as gonad-vibrating with my 5 string as it is with 2 of the 112AV's, but still tight and awesome sounding. I usually prefer the MicroVR with 2 of the 210s as it is easier to transport and monitoring is better with the vertical stack.
That was my first attempt at addressing the issue, actually. Being the super indecisive mofo that I am, I went back and forth with it, but ultimately decided that I just didn’t love it and sent it back.
The look had a lot to do with it, I’m sure. Yes, I’m shallow. But in a side-by-side comparison, I just really thought the Micro VR had more balls and was better for what I wanted to do.
Ultimately, I think it’s gonna be hard for me to end up with anything other than the Micro VR. And that’s fine. And I probably will attempt to replace the fan. If I can’t, that’s fine too.
I love the little guy. The fan is not really that loud. I was shocked at first, but I’m getting used to it. I still don’t understand why they can’t use a temperature-controlled fan or why the fan in the pf-350 can be so quiet, but that’s beyond my sphere of influence. I don’t hear it when I’m playing, it doesn’t bother me that much when it’s on anymore, but there is this huge sigh of relief and feeling of released tension when I turn it off.
By the way, the fan on the second Micro VR is a tiny bit quieter, or at least the resonant frequency of the whine is lower, but it’s not enough to make any real difference.
I have actually decided to send that one back instead. When I sat down to go through the motions of comparing them, expecting 5 minutes of “yep, sounds the same,” I was surprised to find that I consistently preferred the sound of the other one. Also the new one didn’t sit flat in the recesses of the cab, and I think I even heard some rattles in that head that I didn’t hear in the other.
So, I think that first Micro VR head and I are just meant to be together.
Thanks,
Gary
The V4B paired with a SVT212AV is beautiful thing. As good as it is the SVT210AV is no where near the same quality/performance as the 212.
I think you got an answer to this question in an earlier post:
PF350=Class D (cooler)
Micro VR=Class AB (hotter)
Anyways, I have been going through the same gyrations as Gary and lucky for me I found this thread which thoroughly discusses situation. I definitely love the sexy sideways V4B 210AV stack, and the double 210AV cabs with V4B stack.
The two things that are consistent in my research are
- 210AV cabinet is killer good sound AND value. And it is one of the few vertical 210 cans available.
- The micro VR is a stellar match with the 210AV. It's just an awesome amp that is hard to beat at its price point. Much of its signature ampeg sound comes from its AB topology, and unfortunately that means it needs more airflow than class D micro amps-- some of which have no cooling fans.
Howdy y’all,
OP here, checking in a couple years later. Still have the Micro VR/SVT-210 combo, still pretty happy with the sound, still hate the fan noise.
I am here because someone near me has both a PF-20T *AND* PF-50T for sale. I am interested in both models. I know they sound a little different, but are they really different enough that it is worthwhile having both? My understanding is that the PF50T is very similar to a V-4B/SVT, and the PF20T is a little more old school sounding, more like a B-15.
Again, I am a basement player…there is no such thing as not loud enough, only too loud (which my amp collection is a study into). The PF50T has the sound and features I want, but I am still worried it might be too loud. Should I consider both??? I might be able to get a better deal that way, and then take my time deciding whether I really need both in the stable.
I’ll be sticking with the SVT-210 for now, potentially adding a 1x12” cab (PF112 or SVT-112) somewhere down the road…either in addition to or instead of, depending on whether I have one or two heads.
I’m on vacation right now, failing miserably at my attempts to “be here now.” I will try to check them out in person if they’re still available once I get back. I’d love thoughts from you guys on whether the PF50T can replace the mini SVT and meet all my needs, and just how much excess is acceptable for a dude playing in a basement…will the PF50T be too much, and/or can I justify both?
Thanks!
Gary
OP here, checking in a couple years later. Still have the Micro VR/SVT-210 combo, still pretty happy with the sound, still hate the fan noise.
I am here because someone near me has both a PF-20T *AND* PF-50T for sale. I am interested in both models. I know they sound a little different, but are they really different enough that it is worthwhile having both? My understanding is that the PF50T is very similar to a V-4B/SVT, and the PF20T is a little more old school sounding, more like a B-15.
Again, I am a basement player…there is no such thing as not loud enough, only too loud (which my amp collection is a study into). The PF50T has the sound and features I want, but I am still worried it might be too loud. Should I consider both??? I might be able to get a better deal that way, and then take my time deciding whether I really need both in the stable.
I’ll be sticking with the SVT-210 for now, potentially adding a 1x12” cab (PF112 or SVT-112) somewhere down the road…either in addition to or instead of, depending on whether I have one or two heads.
I’m on vacation right now, failing miserably at my attempts to “be here now.” I will try to check them out in person if they’re still available once I get back. I’d love thoughts from you guys on whether the PF50T can replace the mini SVT and meet all my needs, and just how much excess is acceptable for a dude playing in a basement…will the PF50T be too much, and/or can I justify both?
Thanks!
Gary
Good news/bad news: PF-20T is gone, but the PF-50T is still up so far. So, I won’t be buying both…gutted and relieved!
It was the 50 that I was always after anyway. Although, I must confess that I prefer the sound of the 20 in both the fingerstyle and Motown clips here:
Hrm…
Cheers,
Gary
It was the 50 that I was always after anyway. Although, I must confess that I prefer the sound of the 20 in both the fingerstyle and Motown clips here:
Hrm…
Cheers,
Gary
I’m back, but apparently it’s complicated with this PF-50T. Maybe it’s sold, maybe the owner is on vacation for four weeks, maybe…hippo?
I finally had the genius (i.e. obvious) idea to just disconnect the fan on my Micro VR. OMG, what a difference! Dead silent now. I realize I am performing without a net now, but I’m really not pushing it much at all. I am remembering/realizing how good this amp sounds, but without the one major flaw that has always bothered me.
So, I’m tempted to try out a pf-112 and I’ll keep an eye out for a PF-50T and/or a PF-20T, maybe I’ll even end up with this local PF-50T, but it’s all just GAS…it’s really not necessary.
Thanks,
Gary
I finally had the genius (i.e. obvious) idea to just disconnect the fan on my Micro VR. OMG, what a difference! Dead silent now. I realize I am performing without a net now, but I’m really not pushing it much at all. I am remembering/realizing how good this amp sounds, but without the one major flaw that has always bothered me.
So, I’m tempted to try out a pf-112 and I’ll keep an eye out for a PF-50T and/or a PF-20T, maybe I’ll even end up with this local PF-50T, but it’s all just GAS…it’s really not necessary.
Thanks,
Gary
This really shows just how good the Micro VR is:
I feel like I can hear the additional warmth of the V4b, but they are really really similar.
it’s got me wondering if my Micro VR stack paired with a PF-20T/PF-112 would pretty much give me everything I’m looking for. Or maybe I can just try to be happy with what I’ve got? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gary
I feel like I can hear the additional warmth of the V4b, but they are really really similar.
it’s got me wondering if my Micro VR stack paired with a PF-20T/PF-112 would pretty much give me everything I’m looking for. Or maybe I can just try to be happy with what I’ve got? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gary
Gary, except for the V4b, I’ve owned the Micro VR/210 combo and currently use a 20T/PF112 rig in my music room studio, primarily for recording. I know what you’re going through, but the nice thing is all the gear you’re mentioning is great sounding stuff; you really can’t go wrong.
Though I haven’t played through the 50T, I’ve heard the same about the two tune amps. I fell upon a great deal which helped motivate me to the 20T, but I was leaning they way regardless. I wanted a B15ish tone for recording and felt the 50T was overkill. Now, if I was thinking about doing small gigs I’d definitely spend the extra and get the 50T.
I agree with you on the Micro VR, it’s a sweet amp as king as you push the bass towards 2:00. I could hear the fan at low volume levels but it went away as soon as the volume went up. I didn’t record with it, but figure I’d have had to DI it because of the whirring sound in the background.
The 20T/PF112 is the perfect combination of Ampeg tone, power-to-volume ratio, size configuration (I dunno, the V4b sitting on top of the two 210s looks weird to me), and price. If you’re looking for that type of tone, you can hardly beat this pair.
BTW, my Micro VR/210 cab was traded for a PF-800 which was then sold for the funding of the 20T/PF112. Don’t ya just love this hobby?
Though I haven’t played through the 50T, I’ve heard the same about the two tune amps. I fell upon a great deal which helped motivate me to the 20T, but I was leaning they way regardless. I wanted a B15ish tone for recording and felt the 50T was overkill. Now, if I was thinking about doing small gigs I’d definitely spend the extra and get the 50T.
I agree with you on the Micro VR, it’s a sweet amp as king as you push the bass towards 2:00. I could hear the fan at low volume levels but it went away as soon as the volume went up. I didn’t record with it, but figure I’d have had to DI it because of the whirring sound in the background.
The 20T/PF112 is the perfect combination of Ampeg tone, power-to-volume ratio, size configuration (I dunno, the V4b sitting on top of the two 210s looks weird to me), and price. If you’re looking for that type of tone, you can hardly beat this pair.
BTW, my Micro VR/210 cab was traded for a PF-800 which was then sold for the funding of the 20T/PF112. Don’t ya just love this hobby?
Attachments
I think of myself as being more on the SVT side of the picture, but I’ve been enjoying the demos I’ve watched of the PF-20T so much that I’m really starting to question that. It really shines here:
How would you rate the volume of the PF-20/PF112 combo vs. the mini SVT stack? I would really like to try that combo before deciding whether I could really justify keeping both or even getting a PF-50T.
They don’t seem to come up very often, but I’ll keep an eye out.
Thanks,
Gary
How would you rate the volume of the PF-20/PF112 combo vs. the mini SVT stack? I would really like to try that combo before deciding whether I could really justify keeping both or even getting a PF-50T.
They don’t seem to come up very often, but I’ll keep an eye out.
Thanks,
Gary
The Micro VR/210 rig is louder, but if I'm recording the volume doesn't matter as much. Now if you're doing small gigs, then I'd opt for the head and cab(s). The Micro VR does a nice SVT vibe, IMHO, but what struck me about it most is how little bass the 210 cab put out, though after reading on TB, I realized that is the sound. Strong mids with less deep bass through the tens. That's why you have to sweeten the tone with your bass control. At least that's what I did to satisfy the lower bottom end.
The PF-112, like all of the Portaflex cabinets, has plenty of deep bass to share with the audience, though the 12" speaker will offer you less than the 115. That cab, and the 210 too, put out a ton of low-frequency info. As you can see, they're my avatar pic.
Again, the logic owners seemed to have come to is if you own the 20T you're using it primarily for studio and maybe really small gigs, and the 50T will spot you the extra headroom for maybe up to medium-sized venues. A pair of those 210 cabs are a must though if you're going that route. It all comes down to what you're using the gear for. Trying them both out is a great idea, but also knowing ahead of time your requirements will ensure you're not selling your stuff six months later.
Good hunting, Gary!
Yup, I’m just noodin’ in the basement. So, in this case loud is NOT “more good.” I have this terrible habit of loving (smaller) big amps. Like driving a Ferrari (okay, more like a Mustang) up and down the driveway.
I look at the B-15 and the SVT as the two pillars of bass tone. I’ve always considered myself in the SVT camp, but the PF-20T/PF-112 really appeals. I would probably miss the punk aggressiveness of the SVT…not sure how well the PF-20 can do that. Might need both.
Thanks,
Gary
I look at the B-15 and the SVT as the two pillars of bass tone. I’ve always considered myself in the SVT camp, but the PF-20T/PF-112 really appeals. I would probably miss the punk aggressiveness of the SVT…not sure how well the PF-20 can do that. Might need both.
Thanks,
Gary
Yup, I’m just noodin’ in the basement. So, in this case loud is NOT “more good.” I have this terrible habit of loving (smaller) big amps. Like driving a Ferrari (okay, more like a Mustang) up and down the driveway.
I look at the B-15 and the SVT as the two pillars of bass tone. I’ve always considered myself in the SVT camp, but the PF-20T/PF-112 really appeals. I would probably miss the punk aggressiveness of the SVT…not sure how well the PF-20 can do that. Might need both.
Thanks,
Gary
I own several Ampeg plugins and there are examples where a B15 can be overdriven and at least to my ears, sounds SVTish. Also, you can run different speaker cabs like a 410 or 810 and it definitely sounds different than the 115 tone. To me, the 20T gave me most of what I wanted (studio amp, classic Ampeg tone that's similar to a B15, and the tasty tubes) and with the SGT pedal, for example, you can alter the 20T enough to possibly give you exactly what you're looking for. Or buy the 50T and go from there!
I’m in the same situation that you are, and I wonder… have you made a decision between the 20 and the 50?Yup, I’m just noodin’ in the basement. So, in this case loud is NOT “more good.” I have this terrible habit of loving (smaller) big amps. Like driving a Ferrari (okay, more like a Mustang) up and down the driveway.
I look at the B-15 and the SVT as the two pillars of bass tone. I’ve always considered myself in the SVT camp, but the PF-20T/PF-112 really appeals. I would probably miss the punk aggressiveness of the SVT…not sure how well the PF-20 can do that. Might need both.
Thanks,
Gary
