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Ampeg PF350/500 Part V
- Thread starter Chef
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Instead of debating about loudness perception, why don't you guys place a sound meter in front of your rigs, say, std distance of 10 feet, and match apples to apples that way?
Use the same meter weighing (A or C or whatever).
Use the same meter weighing (A or C or whatever).
Sounds like you bought it with the express purpose of hating it. You have all kinds of people telling you otherwise, yet this is your story and you're sticking to it regardless of what anyone says. Well good luck with whatever you get instead.
I agree with that Jimmy, I have had a few 500 watt amps, namely GK MB210 with ext cab, GK MB212, TC BH500 and my PF500 which I still have, the PF500 `IS` as loud as the others and it does not lack in tone, I did find it ran out of clean headroom at a few very loud gigs which is why I got the Streamliner 900 but the PF overall is a good`un for me, its a very worthy back up to my STMLR 
joelb79 said:I again stand by my word that this PF-500 is not a 500w amplifier. Certainly not doing 300w into an 8 ohm load. I was very very very quiet at over 2 o'clock main with a 2 o'clock pre-gain. I really do not think this amp will cut it for me. Sadly my Markbass LMII will cost as much as the PF-500 just to fix and that really irritates me! Looks like I went being able to gig to barely being able to cut it.... I stand by my word, this amp sounds like 125w at full volume with the pre-gain clipping.
I will only give ampeg a shot to make it good unless; it takes too long and I loose my ability to return the amp for my hard earned gig money back. 2 months of gig pay for an amp that makes me unable to gig is unacceptable. I would rather have a Fender 150 Rumble head at this point.. or a Hartke LH500 (cheaper). not to mention this amp cost me a 1.2 months pay of gig money. I have kids to feed and not amplifier companies to make rich.
I just got back from my gig, the drummer was playing with brushes and I had my gains way past noon on both pre and main, and it would barely do any kind of volume. 125w.. I swear. This is not 500w (whether mine is defective or not, I have no vote of confidence with this amp for the future). I have no idea what you guys consider loud, but it cannot hang with my blues bands. Blues.. Low volume, dinner music, blues. What a joke.
I also used the power amp in jack with my VT-Bass and found that this was still low volume although MUCH improved for punch, depth and tone. But still.. really not a 500w amplifier. My markbass LMII would scare me in volume, the PF500 is a pipsqueak.
You do NOT want my opinion on this.. I think there is no way you could blow a speaker cabinet with either head. I do not think the PF-500 is capable of a true 500w, and I question the 300w 8 ohm rating as well. I would think this is more like a 100-200w amplifier, regardless of the 500w rating.
Hey there. I had a bad experience with the EA iAmp 800. I had the pre gain and post each about equal. Why not crank that pre and barely open the Master or vice versa as some topography works that way. I learned that at your 2 & 2 the amp isn't doing anything. It was the least sonically efficient way to run my head. Here mine was sold ready to be boxed and I'd found from a great poster here that I had a sonically warm gainy edgy monster all this time. It didn't get good til the Master was cranked past 3:00.
Sometimes we set our controls from our previous experiences.
No Jimmy, I'm not some douchebag who bought this amplifier just to hate it. I liked the tone in store, and I have been a happy part of the Ampeg family before. I really want to like this amplifier but like you said good luck with whatever yourself too. Put me on ignore or something if you want to treat me this way, deal?
I agree with that Jimmy, I have had a few 500 watt amps, namely GK MB210 with ext cab, GK MB212, TC BH500 and my PF500 which I still have, the PF500 `IS` as loud as the others and it does not lack in tone, I did find it ran out of clean headroom at a few very loud gigs which is why I got the Streamliner 900 but the PF overall is a good`un for me, its a very worthy back up to my STMLR
You agree with Jimmy? Now I'm the jerk who bought an amplifier just to rip on it and hate it on talkbass? You have got to be kidding me.
I'll deal with Ampeg technical support on this matter. Apparently I am a jerk who purchased an amplifier just to rip on it...
I've had great service from both Ampeg's (LOUD) Customer Service and Technical Support departments, so hopefully they can get you squared away. I had a PF500 that literally blew up, and they replaced it no questions asked. I also had a PF115 cab that came with a bad driver - and it was replaced right away also. The PF series was brand new, so I wasn't surprised there may be some bugs that needed to be worked out. Those kinds of things can happen to any company and any amp. What matters is how the comnpany handles the problems when they occur, and that they get you back in running order. I think others here can attest to the great service Ampeg has provided, and once you get a unit that operates correctly, you'll be happy PF owner.
Dude, no one is calling you a jerk. I certainly understand your disappointment in getting a faulty unit. The first one I bought arrived having been damaged in transit, that was a real bummer. I was disappointed too, but I sent it back and was taken care of. Received my second one only to realize it was a faulty unit that started cutting out the same day I received it. REALLY disappointed at that point, almost sick with worry. But I sent THAT one back as well and received the one I have now that has never given me one single bit of trouble.
You definitely have a faulty unit. Send it back, or have it repaired, whatever they're going to do for you and enjoy it (which I think you will, once you get one that works) or get a refund and buy something else that you will enjoy. At this point, I think this series' issues have been well doccumented. Anyone that buys one and runs into problems can't be completely surprised really. But equally as mentioned has been LOUD's commitment to taking care of their customers that purchased this product. So, let 'em take care of it for you, ya know ? Again, I understanmd your disappointment about it but staying mired in the problem isn't going to get you anywhere....think solution.
Joel, sorry man, but a number of people told you that you had a broken one and you should get return it and/or call Ampeg, but you just kept on and on about how it's not a 500w amp rather than address the idea that it could be broken. So I don't see how I did anything wrong here.
On Saturday night my band, Steakhouse, played as direct support for Dax Riggs (Acidbath, Deadboy and the Elephantmen). Our band is rather loud although melodic but this was definitely a sold-out post-punk show in a club with limited PA support. Long story short, I played through my PF350 and it was plenty loud (dare I say destroyed)with headroom to spare. It is the smallest amp I have gigged with in 20 years so I was a little uncertain, but it performed amazingly and I no doubt about the PF350. When I have to bring a small set-up due to a small stage or I just have no need for my rack, I will confidently be gigging this little beast. This amp is loud.
"Sounds like you bought it with the express purpose of hating it. You have all kinds of people telling you otherwise, yet this is your story and you're sticking to it regardless of what anyone says. Well good luck with whatever you get instead"
I don't get all the Ampeg hate around here.
It's like "hate Ampeg nazis"
I don't get all the Ampeg hate around here.
It's like "hate Ampeg nazis"
I've been playing around with it in house here, and it cuts out very regularly at the volumes I will need for Thursday night with a 4 ohm load. I tried to call Ampeg, but their hours are funky and apparently I found them on their lunch break. I agree this unit is broken; Here is what is happening when mine cuts out. My horn tweeter screeches like all hell broke loose and my 410 cones jump straight out of their baskets and hold there. This amp is sending DC current into my speakers and I risk blowing any cabinet I plug this into.
Synopsis: Defective.
Synopsis: Defective.
Ya, defective, since I've yet to hear that in any PF500 I've played 
Well sorry I had to bust on you Joel...you're a good guy and I've always liked you...I just didn't think you were getting the message that it was defective and not underpowered.
Well sorry I had to bust on you Joel...you're a good guy and I've always liked you...I just didn't think you were getting the message that it was defective and not underpowered.
Well... were good man. The amp is another story, but no offense taken. I was just taken back is all.
My PF500/115 filled up a bowling alley on Sunday night with the blues band, no PA support. Settings:
Comp noon
Gain noon
Bass noon
Mid 2:00 Selector 2
Treb 1:00
Vol 1:00
Loud, punchy, full with passive '69 Pbass. Plenty left in gain and vol.
I've had 5 class D heads over the last couple years (Carvin, LM800 tube, Shuttle 6.0, GK MBFusion (died 1 week), PF500). The PF is as loud as any of them and has the best tube-like tone. Notice it's the only one without a tube!
My other amps include a '75 SVT, '78 V4, '64 B18, '66 B15, '66 SB12, '66 blackface bassman. I love my tubes, but I gig the PF500 cause it's loud, small, and sounds great. And it has been 100% reliable.
Comp noon
Gain noon
Bass noon
Mid 2:00 Selector 2
Treb 1:00
Vol 1:00
Loud, punchy, full with passive '69 Pbass. Plenty left in gain and vol.
I've had 5 class D heads over the last couple years (Carvin, LM800 tube, Shuttle 6.0, GK MBFusion (died 1 week), PF500). The PF is as loud as any of them and has the best tube-like tone. Notice it's the only one without a tube!
My other amps include a '75 SVT, '78 V4, '64 B18, '66 B15, '66 SB12, '66 blackface bassman. I love my tubes, but I gig the PF500 cause it's loud, small, and sounds great. And it has been 100% reliable.
Well I saw my PF-550 on a bench with a oscilloscope readout (Fluke Meter) that had AC voltages and DC Voltage displayed. We used a signal generator at 1Khz and 100hz to test the wattage using a 4 ohm dummy load. We measured the peak voltage before clipping at 39volts, which is about 380 watts. Once the voltage reached 42 volts however, the output voltage would drop to around 22volts indicating that the amplifier throttles some when going into clipping. So I was able to verify that this is not a 500w amplifier on the bench, but close.
I also suggested to him that we use a 100hz signal and test power output. The amplifier went into clipping at 38v @ 100hz. Me and him both agree that the specification of 500w is more likely a peak output rating and that 360-380w is well within that "peak" rating theory since i am using ohms law to calculate this power.
What we noticed was that the input gain structure is very sensitive and allows the amplifier to go into full peak which causes protection circuitry to kick in effectively shutting the output down. This is a design feature, and it appears as though the input potentionetor or fet circuitry is the cause of my cut outs. If the input gain structure was more forgiving the amplifier would not be cutting out. It also seems to lack hard output limiting between the preamp and amplifier so this will allow for full clip/DC current situations as well. I certainly hope this is not how the amplifier is designed, because my tech stated this is a bad design and likely will cause many failures in the field.
I called and talked to Ampeg and they are shipping a replacement to me no questions asked. I'll talk to my dealer to make sure that doesn't void my ability to return the amplifier because if the replacement functions the same way I will not be able to use this amplifier. I feel like the input gain structure makes it feel like I am walking on egg shells before a full output failure. We'll go from there when the replacement comes in.
I also suggested to him that we use a 100hz signal and test power output. The amplifier went into clipping at 38v @ 100hz. Me and him both agree that the specification of 500w is more likely a peak output rating and that 360-380w is well within that "peak" rating theory since i am using ohms law to calculate this power.
What we noticed was that the input gain structure is very sensitive and allows the amplifier to go into full peak which causes protection circuitry to kick in effectively shutting the output down. This is a design feature, and it appears as though the input potentionetor or fet circuitry is the cause of my cut outs. If the input gain structure was more forgiving the amplifier would not be cutting out. It also seems to lack hard output limiting between the preamp and amplifier so this will allow for full clip/DC current situations as well. I certainly hope this is not how the amplifier is designed, because my tech stated this is a bad design and likely will cause many failures in the field.
I called and talked to Ampeg and they are shipping a replacement to me no questions asked. I'll talk to my dealer to make sure that doesn't void my ability to return the amplifier because if the replacement functions the same way I will not be able to use this amplifier. I feel like the input gain structure makes it feel like I am walking on egg shells before a full output failure. We'll go from there when the replacement comes in.
Well thanks to your tests, we now know how a broken PF500 benches.
It was certainly able to do about 380w solid, but anymore and the output was cut in 1/2 somehow internally. I really have no idea what kind of circuitry is doing that sort of thing.. We had it going solid at 380w for 30 minutes. Ask for anything over that, output jumped in 1/2 then recovered back to 380w. This behavior was pretty consistent.. and seemed input gain related my tech said. I can see if I can bench the new one when it comes; just so we can see how that one works out.
For now my solution will be to use the VT-Bass into the Power Amp input and that should solve the problem. Seriously...
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