Ampeg PF350/500 Part V

[peddles]

Just came back from a 5 hour rehearsal and the pf500 paired with the 15" pf cab and it hung in there. I was really pushing the volume and was really digging in the whole time and it still sounded great. I really put it through the test with all the noise makers in my rig, tons of fuzz and modulation and it held up to the test.

 

[60bass]

Yesterday I got my PF500 back from Field Services in Phoenix Arizona.

Just to review, I took the amp there after having a discussion with an Ampeg tech a few weeks ago. When I told him it was cutting out on me - he suggested I may need a more powerful amp. After I explained that I had never had this problem before while using other lower powered amps, he explained that tube amps and hybrid amps handle being pushed differently than solid state/class D amps - then he suggested I bring it to the repair facility to make sure "it was running up to spec".

Anyway, after testing at Field Services, they found nothing wrong. I have mixed feelings about this - but the end result is I like the amps tone and portability - but I cannot use it for every gig.

Most of the time it works fine for electric bass - but most of my gigs are without P.A. support and many of them I am playing Rockabilly and Irish Bodran rhythmic slap styles on the upright bass. The amp cuts out fairly often under this circumstance. I will continue to bring the SVT's to those gigs.

The amp has also cut out while I was playing electric (I mostly play a '68 Ampeg AMUB-1 bass which does not have a very hot pickup). I am certain the cutting has nothing to do with my technique. My main instrument is Classical Guitar and I play the electric bass with the same delicate technique (never pop and slap). I do have an affinity for playing with the eq low. I would say I usually have the bass knob around 2:00 and the Ultra Low on. This, combined with a fairly loud volume setting which is unsupported by the P.A. brings the PF500 very close to it's limits.

The bottom line: for $369.00 on sale - I think it is a fine value - and I love the cabs so I will be keeping mine for the gigs that it is suited for.

field services is a solid repair shop. they "know" ampeg at that place. if they say the amp is performing properly and within specifications, then I would tend to believe them.

however that being said, if those specifications are based on a poorly designed circuit, in the end it won't matter anyway. some users under certain conditions will still have problems.

 

[John D]

Seems to me that most of the folks reporting the issues are not ranting against the PF amps, and have contacted Ampeg for support. In some cases, as reported above, they have been given some interesting responses from Ampeg about their issues with the amps dropping out.

I'm not sure what you find so unusually "interesting" about instructing the customer in the proper adjustment of his or her amp.

I am not sure where you are coming from when you say that "you [sic] have not given any indication that the amp does not produce its full/specified power output, other than your opinion."

The "you" was meant in the collective sense. I meant that they were not giving any objective evidence, such as bench testing the amp, that the power levels are deficient. They are in fact only stating their opinions that the amps are not putting out full power. I don't know how to be any clearer.

These issues are being reported by fellow TB members. Its not an opinion, it's a report of a real world, on the gig issue with the amp cutting out/dropping out when pushed.

I never said that it is their opinion that the amps are cutting out. It is their opinion that the amp is not putting out the specified amount of power. Until someone measures the power output at the time of cutout, I stand by my statement.

...OTOH, if Ampeg techs are telling people that they can't push both the volume and low end controls on this amp without using a certain level of compression to choke the levels, than that is a problem with the unit, and not with the user or their expectations.

Again, this is your opinion and an opinion with which I respectfully disagree. If one is overdriving the amp, I find it perfectly reasonable to use compression to prevent clipping. After all, the natural compression in tube amps is one reason they are able to output apparently louder volume levels than equally powered SS amps.

I feel as if you ought to be able to dime every control on your equipment and have it work - not necessarily sound good, but not stop working either.

I'll politely not respond to this statement except to say that I think the amp is working as designed. IMO it is being overdriven, and the built in protection circuits are working to protect the amp, as they are supposed to do. If not for these protection circuits, these amps would most likely fail permanently.

In any event, I may try one of these amps just to hear it in action, but I am not encouraged by some of the reports I am reading.

At least you are keeping an open mind. Judging by my PF350, if you like lots of distortion, you will probably not like these amps. IMO if you are expecting it to keep up with and SVT, you will probably be disappointed. However, if you are satisfied with V4 volume levels with just enough grind and a somewhat tubey sound, you will probably be a happy camper. I hope you find it satisfactory.

 

[60bass]

Maybe someone that is having issues with theirs could contact Tom Bowlus and have it sent over to him so that it can be given to his testing crew. Maybe they could figure out what's going on with it.

Has BGM officially reviewed one of the PF series amps yet? I'd like to see that.

 

[ryanfenderbass]

Just came back from a 5 hour rehearsal and the pf500 paired with the 15" pf cab and it hung in there. I was really pushing the volume and was really digging in the whole time and it still sounded great. I really put it through the test with all the noise makers in my rig, tons of fuzz and modulation and it held up to the test.

Me too! This was 1st rehearsal witn my 4th and (and hopefully final) unit. It was my cover band, and I was only using one PF-115 cab per my previous posts. I totally beat the snot out my E string in the horn hits of Superstition, then rocked some modern indie stuff with some VT grind. No problems. My volume maxed out at around 2 or 3:00, plenty of volume for our rehearsal room.

Tomorrow is a big downtown gig with my original band. You better believe I'll be rocking both 115s and my 7pro!

2 weeks ago I was bummed that I couldn't trust the 500 to power 2 cabs on the big gigs. Water under the bridge. Now I have 2 amps with 2 specific purposes. Couldn't be happier.

Just another $0.02

 

[pfschim]

At least you are keeping an open mind. Judging by my PF350, if you like lots of distortion, you will probably not like these amps. IMO if you are expecting it to keep up with and SVT, you will probably be disappointed. However, if you are satisfied with V4 volume levels with just enough grind and a somewhat tubey sound, you will probably be a happy camper. I hope you find it satisfactory.

I think we may be talking past each other, so I am just going to walk away from this one.

As far as trying out the PF line goes, I am still interested, but if I get my hands on one (probably a PF500 and the 1x15 cab) I will be paying close attention to reliability, which is only reasonable given some of the reports of failure and drop out in this and other forums.

Tone-wise, I am looking for "clean tube" type sound. I currently use a Mesa Walkabout 12+12 ext, with the pre gain set below the break-up/grind point. I know the PF series is SS, but I am still interested to see/hear if Ampeg has been able to capture any of the classic B15 sound in this new amp. If so, it could be a winner. We'll see.

With the Walkabout in mind, has anyone here using the PF, also used the Walkabout ? I am interested to know how the PF series compares to the WA in the "tube sound" arena.

 

[JimmyM]

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Comparison between the PF350 and a 64 B-15N mic'ed into a B-15 cab. Not definitive by any means, but gives you an idea at least. And I've played a Walkabout combo once...the iron transformer Walkabout, not the Scout...good sounding amp but I really didn't think of tube amps when I played it. Mesas in general just seem very tight to me, and while I do think it's a good sound, ain't mah thang, as they say.

 

[John D]

I think we may be talking past each other...

Tone-wise, I am looking for "clean tube" type sound... but I am still interested to see/hear if Ampeg has been able to capture any of the classic B15 sound in this new amp. If so, it could be a winner. We'll see.

Perhaps we are talking past each. That wasn't my intention; I was only trying to help, nothing more, nothing less. Most of my comments have been made in general and not directed toward you. I apologize if it seemed otherwise. If classic B15 sound is what you are looking for in an economical small package, but with more power, I predict that you will be pleasantly surprised. I have an SB-12, and the tone of the amps is very similar. Your goals are, IMO, directly opposite those of the owners who are having issues. Give it a try, and don't be discouraged by other people's reports. I wish you the best of luck. JD

 

[pfschim]

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Comparison between the PF350 and a 64 B-15N mic'ed into a B-15 cab. Not definitive by any means, but gives you an idea at least. And I've played a Walkabout combo once...the iron transformer Walkabout, not the Scout...good sounding amp but I really didn't think of tube amps when I played it. Mesas in general just seem very tight to me, and while I do think it's a good sound, ain't mah thang, as they say.

thanks Jimmy, appreciate the clips.

Its pretty amazing to me that you did not get a tube vibe off of the WA. The prevailing view, which I share, is that it's one of the tubiest amps out there today, often out-tubing many all tube amps. Of course everyone's ears are different and our collective sense of what constitutes "our tone" is all over the map.

The WA is still "mah thang" but I am admittedly going through a bit of tone seeking outlook change after 5 years of using it as my primary rig. Just looking around for workable options and the PF seems like something worth trying. Heck, even Chef, a long time happy WA user, has seemingly flipped over some GK (700RB II !) gear in the past month or so, and I know that you have changed up your own gear arrangement over the past few years too, so its nothing unusual.

Good news is that there is lots for us bassplayers to choose from these days.

 

[JimmyM]

PF, that may be my Ampeg bias creeping in. I have played Mesa tube amps and like them very well, but I judge all amps by the SVT/V4/B-15, and upon reading what you said, I think that when I say an amp sounds "tubey," I think what I really mean is "sounds like Ampeg tube amps." So take that into consideration.

I'd also add that while I think the PF500 is overall a great amp (problems some folks have been having notwithstanding), I think the SVT 7 Pro would be more pleasing to a fan of Ampeg tube amps.

 

[Johno Dunn]

Just got my PF350 to push my 210av, in the mail! Gotta go play!

By now!

Johno!

 

[ddbassGA]

Just got my PF350 to push my 210av, in the mail ...

Don't let it push the 210av in the pool.

 

[bass151]

Interesting I tuned in today. Last night visited a local jam that I frequent every week. A good friend plays house bass and uses one of the older Eden Nemesis 4X10 cabs with a PF500 he bought about 3 months ago. the cab actually sounds pretty good for how small and inexpensive it is and sounds pretty good with the PF500. Well I usually play one of the last sets of the night with some friends and we get a bit loud and the last 3 times I played that jam the PF500 was constantly cutting out. I do dig in with my right hand and use a Lakland 4402 Deluxe and the house guy plays a Fender P which he has the PF500 eq'd to. Now I don't mess with his settings which would probably make a big difference but I don't like messing with other peoples gear. Our basses are totally different and he plays very light with his right hand and I never noticed the amp cut out when he plays. I know there are too many variables to get into but the bottom line is I recently started browsing for a back up/ alternate amp to my Shuttle 9.0 and the PF 500 was attractive because of the low price, but wow seem like a lot going on with this amp.

 

[pfschim]

a few questions about the PF series and the related cabs.

I am looking at the PF500 which is rated 500w @ 4ohms (assuming its 250w @ 8ohms).

The PF115E is an 8ohm cab that can handle 450w RMS, so I will need 2 to get the full output of the amp.

Is the PF500 2ohm stable ? (don't think so from reading the Ampeg specs).

What kind of driver is Ampeg using to be able to spec this 1x15 cab as capable of handling 450w RMS ? This seems somewhat suspicious to me, but maybe there is such a driver on the market at this price point.

 

[Bass 45]

a few questions about the PF series and the related cabs.

I am looking at the PF500 which is rated 500w @ 4ohms (assuming its 250w @ 8ohms).

The PF115E is an 8ohm cab that can handle 450w RMS, so I will need 2 to get the full output of the amp.

Is the PF500 2ohm stable ? (don't think so from reading the Ampeg specs).

What kind of driver is Ampeg using to be able to spec this 1x15 cab as capable of handling 450w RMS ? This seems somewhat suspicious to me, but maybe there is such a driver on the market at this price point.

The speaker is an Eminence. I think it is rated at 400 watts (with the horn able to absorb 50).

The head cannot do two ohms.

 

[GregT]

The PF500 is 300 watts at 8 ohms

 

[bassman64]

Interesting I tuned in today. Last night visited a local jam that I frequent every week. A good friend plays house bass and uses one of the older Eden Nemesis 4X10 cabs with a PF500 he bought about 3 months ago. the cab actually sounds pretty good for how small and inexpensive it is and sounds pretty good with the PF500. Well I usually play one of the last sets of the night with some friends and we get a bit loud and the last 3 times I played that jam the PF500 was constantly cutting out. I do dig in with my right hand and use a Lakland 4402 Deluxe and the house guy plays a Fender P which he has the PF500 eq'd to. Now I don't mess with his settings which would probably make a big difference but I don't like messing with other peoples gear. Our basses are totally different and he plays very light with his right hand and I never noticed the amp cut out when he plays. I know there are too many variables to get into but the bottom line is I recently started browsing for a back up/ alternate amp to my Shuttle 9.0 and the PF 500 was attractive because of the low price, but wow seem like a lot going on with this amp.

a few questions about the PF series and the related cabs.

I am looking at the PF500 which is rated 500w @ 4ohms (assuming its 250w @ 8ohms).

The PF115E is an 8ohm cab that can handle 450w RMS, so I will need 2 to get the full output of the amp.

Is the PF500 2ohm stable ? (don't think so from reading the Ampeg specs).

What kind of driver is Ampeg using to be able to spec this 1x15 cab as capable of handling 450w RMS ? This seems somewhat suspicious to me, but maybe there is such a driver on the market at this price point.

I just got a PF500 and a 115HE. my initial reaction was WOW...the tone I have been accustomed to for the last 10 years with my B100R is almost there with the PF. The PF has a very very nice sound.

I have responded to a few threads here saying that the Mark bass amp I purchased made my Ric sound dull and lifeless as compared to the B100R. this is why I went with the PF.

so, today I got more time to play with the PF and while it is a great sounding amp it has a few quirks.

First, it is not 300 Watts into the 8ohm 115 fliptop. gain at 12 and master at nearly 3 and you can still talk to someone with out yelling. I had my brother in law who is also a bass player come over to help me A/B these amps.
there is some hissing at louder volumes, the fan is annoyingly loud and it just lacks power for an amp that is rated at 300 Watts into the 8 ohm cab.

I did not get the head screws with the flip top, I sent them an email and asked if the loud fan was common and asked about the screws..

"While we haven’t heard on this complaint before with the PF500, there are a couple of things to consider. Unfortunately, fans are a necessary evil. Speaking from experience, with my Mesa and Marshall amps, when recording I have to put the heads in a different room so the fan isn’t picked up on the recording. Especially with most amps, the fan is on all the time and there is a thermal circuit which will change the speed of the fan based off of the temperature that is detected. However, at normal playing volumes, the fan noise should very easily be covered up.

In regards to the PF lid/amp mounting hardware, we would be more than happy to mail that out to you."

Great, they will send me some screws...but never hearing this complaint???? its all over the web.
My MB fan is always on and guess what, I practically have to put my ear up to the back of the amp to hear it.....

The PF clips pretty easily and and can only turn the compression up slightly before the red light comes on.

I also found something out about the MB that makes feel like a fol. I have stated that my Ric sounds dull through the amp, like there is a blanket over the speaker.....well, my bil was like you know that thing is ported right? I was like yeah and he said move it away from the wall...I did and ...it made a big difference...odd, as my Ported B100R was in the smae exact spot and never had an issue..

anyway, my Brother in law plays out all the time. he thinks the PF would not hold its own in a small club or a garage jam session. he also after 10 seconds hated the MB but by the time he left he was saying keep the MB and get rid of the PF
he also recommended that I rip the name off the grill and paint the spray paint the speaker black! lol

 

[carl h.]

Played a successful gig last night with the PF500 into a SVT15. Drummer and 2 guitars and it sounded great as always. Plenty of power @ 8 ohms.

 

[Bassics101]

I do not do this either (usually sounds really bad). But I think you should be able to do it and have the amp actually work. Otherwise it should be considered something of a design flaw.

Does "sounds really bad" equate to cutting out before it sounds really bad (or burns out something?).

I think the electronics are just different in how they behave. I do think that some of these amps cut out way too soon. My loaner did. But I have to push mine quite hard to get it to clip, but it will. And If I push my V4-b's, Kustom, Peavey... hard, they complain too. I'm not criticizing anything or anyone, but I wonder if it is just as simple as my first sentence. These class D's are a different animal that we are not quite used to.

 

[JimmyM]

Does "sounds really bad" equate to cutting out before it sounds really bad (or burns out something?).

I think the electronics are just different in how they behave. I do think that some of these amps cut out way too soon. My loaner did. But I have to push mine quite hard to get it to clip, but it will. And If I push my V4-b's, Kustom, Peavey... hard, they complain too. I'm not criticizing anything or anyone, but I wonder if it is just as simple as my first sentence. These class D's are a different animal that we are not quite used to.

That is exactly right. This is really nothing new. Everyone had to get used to all the little differences with regular solid state vs tube when it first came out, too. But they did, and as time goes on, we'll learn more about how to make these amps work best for us as well. But from what I can see, they crave headroom more than iron transformer amps, and if stupid loud is your goal, you're best off getting more wattage than less.