Ampeg SVT-410HLF bottoms out

[two fingers]

I own an Ampeg 610 HLF. Putting an HPF in front of my rig was the best thing I ever did for that cab. Get one with a knob that adjusts the frequency. Start with it turned all the way down. Gradually goose it up. You'll hear it when you get there. It's hard to explain. You'll just have to trust me.

Gratuitous rig and HPF shots. Sorry, the HPF is behind my tuner in the second one.... but it's there.

 

[Rodslinger]

Get a decent compressor if your amp isn't equipped with one. Turn down the lows & turn up the low mids. You will be fine.

 

[rogypop]

Yep, get the hpf, way cheaper than replacing 4 ampeg speakers if you continue blasting them like that. It will sound better too once you cut the rumble down.

 

[Nevada Pete]

410HLF should swallow anything 3PRO will try to push into it.

My guess - too much lows (almost unbearable) on certain notes are typically problems of the room and cab positioning in the room.

That "shaking windows" and tons of mud are typical for 150-200Hz, not super lows of 410HLF.
Believe me or not - I had the same problem with 410HE (sealed one!) in a badly prepared for band rehearsals room, and NO problem at all when I switched to 410HLF. I think the speakers are fine.

EDIT: Last time I had the same problem when I tried to use my Catalinbread SFT as a semi-clean preamp. The lows on SFT are set on 200Hz. That's OK for guitar, too high for bass. Some notes were dissapearing, some were too loud. Until I switched it off.

I’m with Mazdah on this one! This is one of those problems that’s difficult to diagnose because we aren’t there to actually hear what’s happening and must instead rely on the OP’s description of what’s bothering him. In this case, OP is bothered by what he describes as his loudspeakers “bottoming out”.

<I have a svt-3 with a SVT-410HLF cab and a couple frequency's bottom out.>

May I point out that except for Mazdah who I happen to agree with, the forum is indeed responding correctly to what we all think of when loudspeakers “bottom out”. But me thinks that this is not what is actually happening.

My experience is that when a loudspeaker “bottoms out” in the typical sense of the term, i.e., when the speaker is over driven to the extent that the cone / voice coil reaches its maximum possible excursion and starts to fart, this happens more and more noticeably as the note the loudspeaker is attempting to reproduce goes down in frequency. Not necessarily at, “a couple of frequencies”, or, “only at that certain frequency”.

OP says:

<You know when you go down bass notes and windows shake on>
<That “special frequency”?>
<Well the speaker’s do that only at that certain frequency.>

When windows shake at that, “special frequency”, or, “only at that certain frequency”, that sure sounds like a room resonance to me. My suggestion is to take the cab outside to an area reasonably clear of obstruction like the middle of a driveway, for example, and test there. Also, try laying the cab on its back on a blanket or something with the speakers pointing straight up and see what happens.

I would suspect loudspeaker malfunction only if the so-called bottoming out phenomenon persists outside (i.e., where the cab is free of walls, etc., that could cause resonance effects) same as it sounds inside OP’s room where the cab lives.

Mazdah says, “My guess - too much lows (almost unbearable) on certain notes are typically problems of the room and cab positioning in the room.” I hereby approve of this concept!

Especially with a cab like an Ampeg 410HLF but, of course, in any situation a bass player may find themselves in, a variable high pass filter is always a good idea. But let's figure out what the actual problem is before we fix it.

OP, please let us know what happens if you decide to do the test outside. I think it will help you figure out what is going on with your cab. Good luck!

 

[NathOBX]

Does it matter if OP is playing a 4 string in standard tuning vs. a fiver in drop A?

 

[agedhorse]

Is it possible that the OP is assuming something is happening while actually describing something entirely different?

Perhaps IF is sounds like the speaker is bottoming out it may be something like a pickup pole piece being hit, or even a weak battery in an active bass?

 

[Phil508]

That's why I love my Mesa 800+ , when I play thru the Schroeder's the is HPF off, the Peavey 2-15 HPF is on and I don't have to worry about launching those speakers across the room.

 

[40Hz]

Is it possible that the OP is assuming something is happening while actually describing something entirely different?

Perhaps IF is sounds like the speaker is bottoming out it may be something like a pickup pole piece being hit, or even a weak battery in an active bass?

Any possibility it’s partially due to room or coupling resonance because of where he’s experiencing it bottoming out?

Back at my old house there was a narrow frequency range the room I normally played in did weird things to. At first I thought it was one of the speakers crapping out. But getting the cab up off the floor and onto an isolation pad and a little surgical parametric EQing eliminated it.

 

[juggahnaught]

I used to own one of those cabs and it's honestly the worst bass cab I've ever owned. It can flatter to deceive when playing alone because it goes ULTRA-low. But on stage... Typically I would hear nothing of myself while the glasses in the bar at the other side of the room would rattle (even when I used it with one of those weak, anemic Ampeg V4BHs that were supposed to be 100w but measured closer to 50w in the real world). The 410HLF simply has TOO much low extension and unless you're playing inside an anechoic chamber you will almost certainly hit some deeeeep rumbling, window rattling room resonances at certain notes with that cab.

I found my 410HLF to be practically useless for recording too. No mids to cut through, just a muddy, washed out mess with far too much boomy lows.

It should be able to handle an svt-3 fine though. It's possible that your cab is faulty of course but I have a feeling you problem is more about the 410HLF simply being a horribly poor sounding cab. You could try filtering out some lows of course but I think your money would be better spent on a different cab than on filtering effects. Practically ANY cab of reasonable quality will be better than the Ampeg 410HLF IMO.

Just my personal opinion of course, YMMV.

I used to have this cab and I loved it...for the reasons you mention. I never really thought about it. The bassist in a local pop punk band comprised of some friends runs one with a Jazz...he'd dime the bass knob and so he didn't sound good on stage. However, he switched to a P and cleaned up his EQ and it was night and day.

As they have horns - they can sound good. They aren't crippled (but you have to be on-axis to hear this, in my experience). They can really shine with rounds and pick-style playing. They just have that certain scooped sound, is all. Finally - for monitoring when it's right next to you, yeah, bad. They do sound better once you're out in front of them at least 20 or 30 feet.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Hey there,
I have a svt-3 with a SVT-410HLF cab and a couple frequency's bottom out.
All speakers appear to do it simultaneously.
In dont believe the speakers should be all shot or semi blown.

You know when you go down bass notes and windows shake on
That “special frequency”?
Well the speaker’s do that only at that certain frequency.

Is it the F-Bomb?

 

[JohnnyChatter]

I had that cab for years and i loved it! Had two actually. Never had THAT problem but i don't think I push the bass on my amp as hard as some people.
I need to pull my HPF out and play with it again. I understand the concept and know what it does but for some reason no matter what amp i put it on and doesn't seem to benefit me a ton. I can for sure see the appeal.

As far as the problem with your speakers i would just start at square one and go down the list. Make sure your amps set up correctly. Play it in a different room. Use a different bass and head. Check the speakers.

My first HLF cab got ruined by an SWR head. Wish i knew what an HPF was back than. I would get a buzzy sound when i played lows and my speakers all looked fine but upon looking closer they had come apart where the cone was glued on to the outer ridge.

 

[JimmyM]

I used to own one of those cabs and it's honestly the worst bass cab I've ever owned. It can flatter to deceive when playing alone because it goes ULTRA-low. But on stage... Typically I would hear nothing of myself while the glasses in the bar at the other side of the room would rattle (even when I used it with one of those weak, anemic Ampeg V4BHs that were supposed to be 100w but measured closer to 50w in the real world). The 410HLF simply has TOO much low extension and unless you're playing inside an anechoic chamber you will almost certainly hit some deeeeep rumbling, window rattling room resonances at certain notes with that cab.

I found my 410HLF to be practically useless for recording too. No mids to cut through, just a muddy, washed out mess with far too much boomy lows.

It should be able to handle an svt-3 fine though. It's possible that your cab is faulty of course but I have a feeling you problem is more about the 410HLF simply being a horribly poor sounding cab. You could try filtering out some lows of course but I think your money would be better spent on a different cab than on filtering effects. Practically ANY cab of reasonable quality will be better than the Ampeg 410HLF IMO.

Just my personal opinion of course, YMMV.

That's helpful.

 

[Bassndrums73]

I love my 410HLF. It’s all in how you EQ your amp. The cab already has lot of bottom end. I keep my amp bass EQ knob on the SVT-CL fairly low and it sounds great. If you crank the low end EQ on your amp way up I could see the issue you’re describing happening. There is a sweet spot there.

 

[two fingers]

I love my 410HLF. It’s all in how you EQ your amp. The cab already has lot of bottom end. I keep my amp bass EQ knob on the SVT-CL fairly low and it sounds great. If you crank the low end EQ on your amp way up I could see the issue you’re describing happening. There is a sweet spot there.

I am able to run my SVT-CL at flat (maybe a little low-mid bump) with my 610 HLF after adjusting my HPF. It really does clean up that cab and allow it to shine.

 

[kim workman]

The room and " coupling should have nothing to do with a speaker " bottoming out". That relationship is strictly between the amp and the speaker cabinet, and your tone settings.
450 watts is respectable but at 4 OHMS the amp may not be able to control the speaker very well especially if the bass knob is cranked up much past 3/4.I typically run my amp up to about 4 with the bass treble just a bit over 50% with a little mid boost. But then again I run just a Ampeg cab with a 15 and no horn. When I run my 410 Ampeg cab I struggle to get the same sweet bottom end I get with my single 15 but it never bottoms out.
I run a GK1001RB ll amp with an precision bass.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I used to own one of those cabs and it's honestly the worst bass cab I've ever owned. It can flatter to deceive when playing alone because it goes ULTRA-low. But on stage... Typically I would hear nothing of myself while the glasses in the bar at the other side of the room would rattle (even when I used it with one of those weak, anemic Ampeg V4BHs that were supposed to be 100w but measured closer to 50w in the real world). The 410HLF simply has TOO much low extension and unless you're playing inside an anechoic chamber you will almost certainly hit some deeeeep rumbling, window rattling room resonances at certain notes with that cab.

I found my 410HLF to be practically useless for recording too. No mids to cut through, just a muddy, washed out mess with far too much boomy lows.

It should be able to handle an svt-3 fine though. It's possible that your cab is faulty of course but I have a feeling you problem is more about the 410HLF simply being a horribly poor sounding cab. You could try filtering out some lows of course but I think your money would be better spent on a different cab than on filtering effects. Practically ANY cab of reasonable quality will be better than the Ampeg 410HLF IMO.

Just my personal opinion of course, YMMV.

I was going to reply, but SF said pretty much what I would have posted, so, +1.

 

[Bassndrums73]

I am able to run my SVT-CL at flat (maybe a little low-mid bump) with my 610 HLF after adjusting my HPF. It really does clean up that cab and allow it to shine.

What bass are you playing to do that?

 

[JimmyM]

I am able to run my SVT-CL at flat (maybe a little low-mid bump) with my 610 HLF after adjusting my HPF. It really does clean up that cab and allow it to shine.

What bass are you playing to do that?

610hlf and 410hlf are a wholly different ballgame tonally, bro. Can't really apply one to the other.

 

[uncle woody]

Barefaced 610 booming issue

Summary: I find the cab sounding good but have issues with uncontrolled boosts in low frequencies, particularly on certain notes.

Test Case 1: Mesa Big Block 750
When I connect the Mesa there is much less booming. This amp is much more "in your face" and naturally very clear sounding. This concludes that much of the booming has to do with the way the Ampeg V4B interacts with the cabinet. The amp is much more focused on the "tuby" lows. I also suspect the Mesa amps work with internal HPF's.

Test Case 2: Bergantino NV610 comparison
A friend was potentially selling his NV610. We decided to AB the cabs to see what we would find.

We found that the Bergantino is much punchier and more present in high mids, while the Barefaced instantly presents a spectrum of low mids when plugged in. Isolated the Barefaced sounds the best (because of the added lows), but we both imagined that in a band setting the Bergantino would be best. After all, the Barefaced lows are hard to control and might cloud the room, while the Bergantino just kind of falls into place.

However...

After some EQ'ing we could get a setting where the Barefaced sounded very much like the Bergantino. Mostly by adding gain and adding a lot of high mids. I was pleasently surprised. Both are great cabs, but the Bergantino seems to do one thing particularly well (punch and presence), while the Barefaced aims more for an "all purpose" cab. The low end is there to take, but you can make it punch and scream as well if you want to.

Test Case 3: Selective EQ
Using a sweep filter I was able to tame the boom frequencies, but it also took away a lot of the "balls" of the sounds, and the notes that weren't booming in the first place suffered the most.

Test Case 4: Hi-Pass filter
A lot of you suggested the use of a HPF, which seems counterintuitive.

However, it did wonders.

I bought a Broughton HPF which sweeps from 25HZ to 190HZ (12dB). This gave me a control to the low-end. At the lowest point the room would be filled with boom and at the highest it would sound much more crispy (210AV like). I would sweep the filter high to low until the boom just starts to come in, but doesn't get out of control.

Conclusion:
It very much feels like I have tamed a wild horse. It took a lot of practice with EQ and the purchase of a LPF, but the look, weight and build quality of this cab more than make up for the trouble . And now I wouldn't trade the cab for anything else.

Buy the cab, it's a dream to carry and look at. However, be prepared to spend some time getting to know it and trying different amps and EQ's. B