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Ampeg SVT-VR
- Thread starter gwx014
- Start date
- Status
Well, the new VR will still not sound like an original SVT....they will be using new modern parts. As with the AC Cobra car reproduction, a replica is just that...a copy of the original.
Electronics do "Break in" and change their tone over the years. Stereophiles can hear their amplifiers "age" and describe this as a warmer sound.I belive one of the strong points about an original SVT is it has had years to age and break in.
As for the VR having more air around it or brighter than a cl...turn the treble up a bit on the cl.
I also wonder if they will do a VR of the original bottom, along with the lower powerd speakers.
I will be curious to hear them side by side when it's in the local GC. The argument of a "real" SVT, being only the older, original ones should come to a conclusion now....right? Nope. This just adds some more fuel to the fire.
Electronics do "Break in" and change their tone over the years. Stereophiles can hear their amplifiers "age" and describe this as a warmer sound.I belive one of the strong points about an original SVT is it has had years to age and break in.
As for the VR having more air around it or brighter than a cl...turn the treble up a bit on the cl.
I also wonder if they will do a VR of the original bottom, along with the lower powerd speakers.
I will be curious to hear them side by side when it's in the local GC. The argument of a "real" SVT, being only the older, original ones should come to a conclusion now....right? Nope. This just adds some more fuel to the fire.
- Mar 20, 2005
- 794
- 3
- Disclosures
- I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
ricplyrz said:
sorry, its not the same. i have not a/b'd my '74 with the VR, but i have a/b my '74 with my CL & the '74 has much more depth and clartity. no matter how i turned the knobs on the CL, I could not get it to sound like the '74. I had a similar experience a/b'ing the VR with the CL at NAMM.
Does VR sound EXACTLY like a vintage SVT? well i have yet to a/b the two, but I can say that for sure it sounds closer to the vintage than the CL.
AFAIK, there will NOT be a re-issuse of the "square back" 810 cabs with Alicno speakers. Currently the matching cab is the 810 AV, which IMO never sounded better than paired up with the VR.
ricplyrz said:
Not saying that you are incorrect but if you havent heard one then I wouldnt take your word for it. Whats this about broken in electronics? In my experience old leaky caps do not a better amp make. Components that have drifted in value over time may or may not make your amp sound better but my guess is not.
metron said:
As in an automobile, that runs "better" when warmed up...so do most electronics. As a matter of fact, powering up a cold SVT and starting to play through it can actualy damage the tubes. When I say cold..I mean COLD as in temp. If you belive there is no difference to a warmed up amplifier, as to a cold one...that's cool.......IMO. I never mentioned old leaky caps. Obviously, your interpetation of what I was saying was misunderstood.
You choose to look at the negatives, leaky caps, drifting values in older electronics. I look at the breaking in of them as warmer, in my experiences, as a positive. Transistors, tubes, transformers all change their character, (sound) as they warm up. Simple electronics.
Transformers, tubes are electro mechanicle devices. Tap on a microphonic tube....you hear the "ping" of vibration. Mechanical sound being amplified, transformers "buzz"...some more than others. Perfect reason why they are mounted usually with rubber groments.
Sounds like you are mixing references here a bit, between "warming with age", and warming up teh amp.
1) A "cold" SVT doesn't make ANY sound, if the tube filaments aren't warmed up......
OK, Ok, I know, you mean warm as in when everything is at operating temp.
Yes, copper resistance goes up, parts drift according to their temperature coefficient, etc. Can be good, or bad, depending on the part and how it changes....
2) If the sound of an amplifier drifts a bunch through the years as it ages, then one would expect amplfiers to drift apart in sound as they age. Some do in fact do that,..... as parts fail.
Tubes age, and gain decreases, etc..... that can "warm" up the sound, depending on your definitions, some others might say it just gets "wooly" or "dark" or "muddy" or "muffled" ......
Resistors and capacitors change value... maybe good if design was bad, maybe not.
But as someone pointed out, a NEW SVT sounded pretty good in the '70's...... same with a new Fender twin, etc.
And, of course, your "old" SVT or Fender or whatever, after it has been retubed, had its capacitors replaced, etc, etc, is likely to be back towards "new" again , sound and performance-wise.
I wouldn't listen too hard to what the audiophiles say..... that way lies insanity.... They believe in all sorts of essence of bat wing secrets, insisting that one do "breaking-in" of speaker cables a particular way or you ruin them, ...... special cables that cost $400 per foot, yet! I'm waiting for a resurgence of the phlogiston theory.
I have come to the conclusion that many of them are "virtual" listeners, or "checkbook listeners", Not actually listening, but being satisfied with knowing that after they get enough "fine" equipment, then IF they listened, it would be really good....... Some are probably scared to listen, in case it ISN'T good.....
Play whacha got, listen to whatcha got, and if you really don't like it after you've played it or listened to it, change it.
1) A "cold" SVT doesn't make ANY sound, if the tube filaments aren't warmed up......
OK, Ok, I know, you mean warm as in when everything is at operating temp.
Yes, copper resistance goes up, parts drift according to their temperature coefficient, etc. Can be good, or bad, depending on the part and how it changes....
2) If the sound of an amplifier drifts a bunch through the years as it ages, then one would expect amplfiers to drift apart in sound as they age. Some do in fact do that,..... as parts fail.
Tubes age, and gain decreases, etc..... that can "warm" up the sound, depending on your definitions, some others might say it just gets "wooly" or "dark" or "muddy" or "muffled" ......
Resistors and capacitors change value... maybe good if design was bad, maybe not.
But as someone pointed out, a NEW SVT sounded pretty good in the '70's...... same with a new Fender twin, etc.
And, of course, your "old" SVT or Fender or whatever, after it has been retubed, had its capacitors replaced, etc, etc, is likely to be back towards "new" again , sound and performance-wise.
I wouldn't listen too hard to what the audiophiles say..... that way lies insanity.... They believe in all sorts of essence of bat wing secrets, insisting that one do "breaking-in" of speaker cables a particular way or you ruin them, ...... special cables that cost $400 per foot, yet! I'm waiting for a resurgence of the phlogiston theory.
I have come to the conclusion that many of them are "virtual" listeners, or "checkbook listeners", Not actually listening, but being satisfied with knowing that after they get enough "fine" equipment, then IF they listened, it would be really good....... Some are probably scared to listen, in case it ISN'T good.....
Play whacha got, listen to whatcha got, and if you really don't like it after you've played it or listened to it, change it.
ricplyrz said:
Um. You mentioned that electronics break in as they age? And implied that they get better as a result. I suggested that you are incorrect. For example when caps get very old they do not hold charge as well. For example resistors may drift in value. These things simply do not effect sound positively.
Amp operating temperature is something new you just introduced with this response. See you are talking about two different things. I believe my response directly adressed your presumption that audiophiles think amps get "warmer" as they age. As in warmer tone? I guess you were saying they get hotter as they get older?
Yeah my old tube amp gets hot when I turn it on. Usually I wait for it to heat up... 
I'll try one more time.
Cold SVT...as in comming in from the cold. An Svt that has not been warmed up....won't sound as good as one that has.
If I take my svt, in say a 50 degree room where it has been sitting for a few days, turn it on and turn on the 600+ voltage to the tubes, (take it out of stand by), and start playing, there is a good chance I could break a power tube by the extreem temprature change so suddenly.
Now, If I let the amp properly warm up....say in stand by for 10-15 mins or so, then turn it on...I should have no problem. Also, a warmed up amp will sound different than a cold one.
I belive Ampeg even reccomends 20 -30 mins turn on before you set the bias...why..so everything reachs OPERATING temps.
I won't go into audiophiles either, some of those claims are a bit out there, however, I have noticed the difference in sound in a good playback system....from first being turned on...to comming back an hour later and hearing it warmed up...(temp wise). It did sound warmer, (richer) in sound.
And yes, as Jerold stated, tubes age, and this sound can be described as "warmer". So do transistors and other devices.
Transformers have been known to "lose" their hum, (mechanical sound) as they age, (break in).
Speakers sound better after they break in.
Hopefully this clears up what I tried to say in my first post.
The whole point of this is, I doubt that a VR will sound "Just Like" a vintage. Why, because of the aging of the vintage's electronics. That's all.
Why do you think these vintage bass amps as well as stereo amps are so sought after? Their sound. And part of that sound is the parts/electronics used 30 years ago and the aging of those parts.
Cold SVT...as in comming in from the cold. An Svt that has not been warmed up....won't sound as good as one that has.
If I take my svt, in say a 50 degree room where it has been sitting for a few days, turn it on and turn on the 600+ voltage to the tubes, (take it out of stand by), and start playing, there is a good chance I could break a power tube by the extreem temprature change so suddenly.
Now, If I let the amp properly warm up....say in stand by for 10-15 mins or so, then turn it on...I should have no problem. Also, a warmed up amp will sound different than a cold one.
I belive Ampeg even reccomends 20 -30 mins turn on before you set the bias...why..so everything reachs OPERATING temps.
I won't go into audiophiles either, some of those claims are a bit out there, however, I have noticed the difference in sound in a good playback system....from first being turned on...to comming back an hour later and hearing it warmed up...(temp wise). It did sound warmer, (richer) in sound.
And yes, as Jerold stated, tubes age, and this sound can be described as "warmer". So do transistors and other devices.
Transformers have been known to "lose" their hum, (mechanical sound) as they age, (break in).
Speakers sound better after they break in.
Hopefully this clears up what I tried to say in my first post.
The whole point of this is, I doubt that a VR will sound "Just Like" a vintage. Why, because of the aging of the vintage's electronics. That's all.
Why do you think these vintage bass amps as well as stereo amps are so sought after? Their sound. And part of that sound is the parts/electronics used 30 years ago and the aging of those parts.
ricplyrz said:
Dude people everyone who uses tube amps know they are supposed to let them warm up. No actually you are still confusing the point I was arguing against with another. Nothing to do with temperature. Im simply stating that your premise that old electronics "age" like a fine wine and therefore are more desirable is ridiculous! My old ampeg was in crappy shape because it was old and hat to be fixed to make it more like it was when it was new. The result is.... suprise! It sounds a lot better now.
- Mar 20, 2005
- 794
- 3
- Disclosures
- I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
ricplyrz said:
An amp that sounded like crap 30 years ago is not going to sound better after aging for 30 years. Vintage SVT's are sought after because they sound great and have always sounded great. Theres more of an argument that the VR wont sound "exactly" like a vintage because its not "exactly" the same circuit... and I'd agree with that argument. But because the vintage has aged... thats a stretch.
THB_bassman said:
I am told about 30 to 45 days. As for when a store by you will get theirs, I don't know.
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