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Ampeg V4B vs. SVT CL

#21
Having had a 410HLF would also advise against it with 3 sets of stairs. It's a pretty deep cab and somewhat awkward to move around. Traded it for a 610HLF and it was waaaay easier to schlep surprisingly enough.

V4B and a 212AV is a pretty sweet small setup - it got stupid loud pretty quickly in the store when I tried it out. Can't report much beyond that. Generally though, modern tube amps don't need the same level of care and feeding as their predecessors.
 
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#22
Funny you mentioned these two heads. I have the V4B and a SVT-CL right now. I bought both to try them out and keep the one I liked the best and return the other.

After a week of testing both. I can tell you the V4B has it all over the SVT-CL when it comes to tone. The SVT-CL sounds more like a solid state head to me. The V4B smoother, clearer and can be more grindier if needed. You can get some amazing sounds out of the V4B.

The SVT isn't much louder. I expected it to be 3 times as loud as the V4B but I found it to only marginally louder. Plus it's twice the weight of the V4B and I found the SVT-CL fan a little annoying at low volumes. The V4B has no fan and is dead silent. The SVT-CL is going back to GC tomorrow. No comparison for my money.
 
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#23
Robi Brown said:
How much does maintenance cost you for both and what have you had done? I was also looking at amps like the Orange Terror Head and Mesa Boogie D-800 but don't know if I would be satisfied with the tone in a loud post-rock band versus a loud tube head. It's appearing to be a pretty expensive stressful ride... but all this researching is getting me so excited at the same time!!
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I use an Ampeg preamp now so maintenance is really nothing. I played about 27 gigs on average per year with practice once a week in a typical bar band with my V4B. You can plan on replacing the power tubes once a year at that rate. My V4B is from the 90s so I had to take it to a tech to be biased when I replaced them because there are no external bias controls. The SVT has more tubes in the power section but it gives you a bias control externally and indicator lights so you can replace the power tubes yourself which saves you from going to a tech. It was about $200 to replace the power tubes once a year.

The Ampeg tube pre/class D power amp thing gets you really close but there is still no substitute for an all tube amp. If you want that sound you just have to deal with the weight and replacement tubes. For the record, if I was still using floor monitors instead of in ear monitors I would be using one of my all tube amps to gig with. There is no substitute for that sound and once you have experienced it there's no going back. They are very heavy and 3 flights of stairs is a lot at 3 am. If the V4B gives you enough volume I would go that route and get a first floor apartment....

I also hated the 410 HLF Ampeg cab. It was too much bottom end at the expense of mids if you ask me. I a/b'ed several cabs and the winner for me was the Mesa 410 powerhouse. Of course this is personal taste. I go for an upper mid heavy Geddy ish sound.

Hope that helps
 
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#25
At different times I've owned an old V-4B and an MTI SVT. The V-4B sounded good, but started losing gas in the low frequencies at loud volumes. I'd say a V-4B will be fine if
  • you don't need to be super loud and bassy, or
  • you're going to play loud but don't mind sounding dirty and midrange-heavy, or
  • you have some really efficient and deep-sounding cabinets
Whereas the SVT will have you covered in any situation. For the same price, I would get the SVT in a heartbeat although it'll be heavier to move around. The old V-4(B) heads are still super heavy for their size, although I think the reissues are supposed to be lighter?
 
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#28
morgan138 said:
Yeah, in my experience it's in the low frequencies that the SVT shines over the ~100-200 watt heads -- not overall loudness really.

A V-4B won't do tight + deep bass at loud volumes like an SVT, especially if you start tuning down.
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I have to disagree I find the V4B to have much better lows than the SVT-CL with more clarity and range. I feel the SVT-CL is more mids if anything.

However, I haven't had a chance to compare the V4B directly with the SVT-VR or Heritage SVT-VR. If they sound anything like the V4B but with more tone and power, than I would agree they would be the ultimate choice for a tube rig. Others on TB have also mentioned that the SVT-CL is not the same animal as the SVT-VR.
 
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#29
Id rather drag an 8x10 up the stairs by its handle on casters/skid pads than carry a 4x10 up. But that all depends on the angle of the stairs and the stair well too I suppose.

Ive owned the V4 concurrently with the SVT-CL, but not the V4B - I really liked it but I still own the SVT. Not sure if the V4B is narrower than the v4, I hated the way the V4 sat on all my bass cabs, but the SVT fits on top like someone paid attention to measurements.

I WAY preferred carrying the V4 though, the SVT wouldn't be so bad if you could hoist it on a shoulder, but keeping it there is the problem.
 
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#30
Completely different tonally, obviously, but for the styles of music you play I recommend looking for a used Orange AD200B and two OBC115 cabs. If you are afraid of having too Much grind in your tone that setup should be pleasing to your ears. Loud, beautiful, great tone, just scooped compared to Ampeg's voicing. 3 trips from your car to your apartment but you won't be struggling much. I loved my V4B but it never stayed clean at the volumes I needed that my SVT gives me. But if you play loud distorted rock all the time, it's a great amp :)
 
#31
Robi Brown said:
If it helps at all, I lug a Vox AC30 up and down the same set of stairs (it's by far the heaviest piece of gear I have so far). I'm in my 20s so it's been okay to do but definitely not a pleasant experience every time! :p

You can carry an AC30. You cannot carry an SVT-410HLF.
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Dp1363 said:
Funny you mentioned these two heads. I have the V4B and a SVT-CL right now. I bought both to try them out and keep the one I liked the best and return the other.

After a week of testing both. I can tell you the V4B has it all over the SVT-CL when it comes to tone. The SVT-CL sounds more like a solid state head to me. The V4B smoother, clearer and can be more grindier if needed. You can get some amazing sounds out of the V4B.

The SVT isn't much louder. I expected it to be 3 times as loud as the V4B but I found it to only marginally louder. Plus it's twice the weight of the V4B and I found the SVT-CL fan a little annoying at low volumes. The V4B has no fan and is dead silent. The SVT-CL is going back to GC tomorrow. No comparison for my money.
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I own both. IMO, if you aren't satisfied with the tone or loudness of an SVT, you are not using the tone controls and/or simply not turning it up enough. Understandable because getting the best out of an SVT can be hazardous to you and the immediate environment.
 
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#32
Dp1363 said:
I have to disagree I find the V4B to have much better lows than the SVT-CL with more clarity and range. I feel the SVT-CL is more mids if anything.
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Huh. I'm not talking about voicing, though. I meant that that the 120 watt amp just doesn't have the headroom to produce clean deep bass at high volume levels, compared to the 300 watt one. An SVT-CL might well have more midrange emphasis, in terms of EQ and voicing!
 
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#33
Dp1363 said:
I have to disagree I find the V4B to have much better lows than the SVT-CL with more clarity and range. I feel the SVT-CL is more mids if anything.

However, I haven't had a chance to compare the V4B directly with the SVT-VR or Heritage SVT-VR. If they sound anything like the V4B but with more tone and power, than I would agree they would be the ultimate choice for a tube rig. Others on TB have also mentioned that the SVT-CL is not the same animal as the SVT-VR.
Click to expand...

I suspect you're not using it correctly if you can't get an SVT-CL doing that. Might want to spend some more time with it.
 
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#34
If you are worried about going up stairs in a small apartment, you could opt for a dirty, tube-y sounding preamp like a Darkglass or a Le Bass into a class D head. I have a Mesa D800 and it's a very neutral head that takes well to effects and only weighs 5 pounds. It would sound the same as an all tube Ampeg, but it will come very close for a lot cheaper and you won't have to worry about maintenance.

I'm with everyone else, avoid the 410HLF and go for the 212AV. I have the older made in US 410HLF and it is way to dark and muddy sounding, even when I heavily cut the low end on my amp. I'm looking to buy a 212AV and ditch it as soon as I have the money for one.

The V4B and 212AV combo really sounds amazing though...

 
#35
morgan138 said:
At different times I've owned an old V-4B and an MTI SVT. The V-4B sounded good, but started losing gas in the low frequencies at loud volumes. I'd say a V-4B will be fine if
  • you don't need to be super loud and bassy, or
  • you're going to play loud but don't mind sounding dirty and midrange-heavy, or
  • you have some really efficient and deep-sounding cabinets
Whereas the SVT will have you covered in any situation. For the same price, I would get the SVT in a heartbeat although it'll be heavier to move around. The old V-4(B) heads are still super heavy for their size, although I think the reissues are supposed to be lighter?
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Yep, the V4-B reissue is 20 lbs. lighter than the old ones, so it's about half the weight of an SVT. It's also 3 inches narrower, thus matching the SVT. I have both a '70s V-4B and a reissue, and the difference in schlep factor is dramatic.
 
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#36
Another endorsement for the V4B/212AV combination. I love mine. I mix styles in my playing, from fuzzed out or grindy tones to more mellow fingerstyle depending on the song. The V4B/212 has delivered for me on all but perhaps the largest stages (mostly open air/outdoors) where it wasn't necessary to hear, but would have been really awesome to have a second 212 cab deal with some of the sound dissipation.

Also, to be transparent (this does effect overall tone) - I play with the Ultra Low switch engaged (which a lot of folks on here consider to be a tone-suck switch). The Ultra Low switch smooths out some of those grindier mids that people associate with hitting the rails on the V4B. In order to combat the smiley face EQ tone, I boost mids elsewhere and roll off bass. It's a perfect setting for my 62RI Jazz, and I'm able to get back some nice lo-mid grind with pedals and a pick, but still have those deep smooth lows with fingers.

Also of note: moving from an Orange AD200b and OBC410 rig, the weight difference in transport has been incredible.
 
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#38
Robi Brown said:
I'd mind the grind of the V4B (thinking about pairing it with the 212av or a 410hlf) but wondering if paired with a jazz bass... would it be too grindy to play outside of rock music?
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I don't find the V4B to be grindy. With the 212AV it's more round, creamy and harmonic. I can't image a situation where it wouldn't sound good. Your Jazz might be grindy, but don't worry about the V4B.

I love my V4B/212AV combo for the reasons others have mentioned... tone, less weight, etc. It's a great rig. I actually bought a second 212AV for big stages that require more than bar volume. Only had to use two once.
 
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#39
Burwabit said:
I don't find the V4B to be grindy. With the 212AV it's more round, creamy and harmonic. I can't image a situation where it wouldn't sound good. Your Jazz might be grindy, but don't
worry about th V4B.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how the V4B Reissue sounds to me. I can get a lot of volume without the grind. the original V4B has a more grindy tone IMO.
 
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#40
To give some insight on maintenance- I've used my V4B for 20+ gigs and have only had to service it once. I was a little careless one night and slammed it into a door which caused a soldering joint to break. It was a super simple fix and it only cost me about $40. Like others have said... The V4B is an incredible amp. I also have an SVT-CL, but it's more or less a backup for the V4B at this point.

I did a cab shootout between the 212AV and the 410HLF earlier this year. Personally, I love the V4B paired with the 410HLF. I tend to favor low-end more than mids (I absolutely love the ultra-low switch on the head), but both cabs sounded great in their own way. That being said... In your case, I would highly recommend the 212AV for going up 3 flights of stairs. The difference in tone isn't worth the hassle in my opinion.

Hope that helps!
 
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