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Amps like the Bassman
- Thread starter Rockman
- Start date
- May 9, 2008
- 4,081
- 1,236
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Springvale Studios
There have been quite a few different amps called Fender Bassman.
Big differences in the original tube design range: for instance the 50 and 100 are not ultra linear designs whereas the 70 and 135 are.
The tweed Bassman combo amps from the '50s? Or the blackfaced dual 6L6 Bassmans from the early to mid '60s? Or the silver faced dual 6L6 Bassmans from the late '60s? Or the sliver quad 6L6 Bassmans (Super Bassman which morphed into the Bassman 100) with the regular power section? Or the Bassman 50 with two 6L6 tubes? Or the ultralinear Bassman 70 and Bassman 135 that came later? Or the solid state Bassmans that came out about ten years ago? Or the Bassman 10 from the '70s that has no sonic connection to the tweed Bassmans of the '50s?
Saying "Basman" is like saying "Fender Bass"- there's a ton of them and they're quite different. Let's narrow it down a bit. Bottom line though if you're talking about the most common ones (the dual 6L6 ones rated between 45 and 70 watts RMS and the quad 6L6 ones rated between 85 to 135 WRMS) the preamps are pretty typical Fender tone-banks (also Dual Showman and Showman amps). The "Bass" channel has a different roll-off on the lows (actually less bass response- it was designed for "bass heavy instruments" and I suspect was made to clean up Gibson basses) but the "Normal" channel on them is just like the "Normal" channel on Fender guitar amps of the same era.
The Alembic pre-amp (FX-2?) is based on the Dual Showman preamp, and those are highly regarded. However a large part of the characteristic sound of a Bassman isn't just the pre-amp, but how the they respond at the power stage when pushed harder. It's a different kind of sound than the other big tube bass amps, the Ampegs and Sunns of the same era.
I can't imagine the TV series with their solid state power sections are going to emulate the sound of a classic Bassman very much, but I've not played one because the Fender dealers in this area don't carry much.
John
Saying "Basman" is like saying "Fender Bass"- there's a ton of them and they're quite different. Let's narrow it down a bit. Bottom line though if you're talking about the most common ones (the dual 6L6 ones rated between 45 and 70 watts RMS and the quad 6L6 ones rated between 85 to 135 WRMS) the preamps are pretty typical Fender tone-banks (also Dual Showman and Showman amps). The "Bass" channel has a different roll-off on the lows (actually less bass response- it was designed for "bass heavy instruments" and I suspect was made to clean up Gibson basses) but the "Normal" channel on them is just like the "Normal" channel on Fender guitar amps of the same era.
The Alembic pre-amp (FX-2?) is based on the Dual Showman preamp, and those are highly regarded. However a large part of the characteristic sound of a Bassman isn't just the pre-amp, but how the they respond at the power stage when pushed harder. It's a different kind of sound than the other big tube bass amps, the Ampegs and Sunns of the same era.
I can't imagine the TV series with their solid state power sections are going to emulate the sound of a classic Bassman very much, but I've not played one because the Fender dealers in this area don't carry much.
John
In what way ? When you push a Bassman hard it tends to fart out pretty badly. If you puch it a little you can get a warm power tube distortion but - it's way too quiet to gig with. I'm thinking specifically of the 2 6L6 AB series head, you know the old Black Face one...
I'm a big fan of the Fender/RCA tone stack though so for a time I ran an Alembic F2B into the front end of a GK 1001 RB -II - that was sweet! It had a really juicy Fender vibe and - well I never lacked headroom. I could dial in some grit from the Boost if necessary.
With the Alembic, I ran straight into the instrument input on the Gk and engaged the Pad.
The BBE B-MaxT has some of that Fender ibe going for it as well as it has the RCA tone stack followed by the semi parametic mid - nice add on for that particular setup. The T version is pretty Fat sounding, the nonT is sweet but not as fat.
The combo I was using was the Bassman 10. I would like a head that sounds similar, I was just trying to cop the sound coming from the head into my current cabs. I'm not really looking to spend a lot of money on a preamp to use with the GK, I was thinking about selling it to fund a replacement.
Also is this exactly what I need (seems like a silly question to me!)http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f127/1976-fender-bassman-100-a-731360/
Also is this exactly what I need (seems like a silly question to me!)http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f127/1976-fender-bassman-100-a-731360/
I gotta disagree with you a little. For small to small-medium rooms I do fine with a 50 watt Bassman 10. But... I replaced the speakers with 32 ohm Jensen Mod 10's (96 db/watt-meter) which are pretty efficient, and the amp section is really quiet so I think someone did a little tinkering in there before I got this battle scarred relic. I love the sound of the warm power tube distortion, to the point of our own KraigO has complaining about me being too loud.
- Paul
I haven't played one either, I'm just making the assumption off of the video reviews and the fact that the TVs are supposed to resemble the old amps.
Tube emulation has come a long way too, and I wouldn't be surprised if the TVs could come close. Just look at the VT, the Micro VR, or the new Streamliner.
The Streamliner isn't doing tube emulation. It's the real deal, employing 6 gain stages through three 12ax7 tubes.
I have the 135 and really like the sound of it but like has been said, the gig volume just isn't there, save for getting 2 of them and a lot of speakers. I like it for the "warm but still kinda clean" sound, not for the grit. Haven't found much of anything that sounds just like one but can usually get a decent sound out of most anything. I had mine rebiased to run on 2 power tubes and it's my guitar amp now, sounds good there too.
Well, I wouldn't call it emulation in the power section either. There's a limiting technology their that is designed to provide graceful limiting as the amp reaches the clipping point. It's designed to be a gradual limiter so that the end result is more musical, which is what tube power-sections do by nature, but I don't know that I'd call it "emulation". Most every solid state amplifier has a limiter built into it, whether it's in a bass head or a car stereo.
Besides, even when using the head in post-EQ DI mode, or through the headphone jack, the full nature and character of the head is still in there. I'd say 99% of the head's tone comes from the all-tube preamplifier. It really is the real thing.
the tv's do come very close to the sound of a tube bassman. the hartke lh500 and 1000 have a fender tone stack and also are very much in the ballpark. nothing without a tube power section will be exact, but i would probably go for the hartke if i were looking for that type of thing.
Different strokes then. The 2x6l6 circuit doesn't have near enough headroom for me. I do love small tube amps but for me it's strictly a recording thing. I get massive out of a Princeton Reverb, speaker out into a U5, into the interface. I monitor into a 1x15 with an old Jensen. It's pretty dang cool.
For me the Fender sound is when the amp is hot, but just prior to noticible distortion. No question that it's a matter of taste though.
I could do acoustic gigs with a Showman and the old small box 2x12. Warts and all, that thing produced some wonderful sounds.
+1 on the LH500
I have a Dual Showman and the tested the LH500, very similiar vibe, also great value
Also have a look at the Fender TBP1 based amps TB600 and TB1200...
I've not played a TV, but it's funny to me that Fender is charging more for a TV 1x15 combo than what you can spend on a nice Bassman 135/2x15 or Bassman 100/2x15. Seems silly that one would buy new.
A Bassman 135 attached to an Ampeg 810 is awesome. It wasn't quite loud enough for me in my band, but I have a hard time believing that even 10% of the bands out there are louder at practice volumes than we are.
I loved my Bassman 135... Loved it.
it's a really good amp, but i agree. also, they made it non-expandable, which imho you should only find in cheap combo amps, not $1000 amps.
