Double Bass AMT through a GK MB150?

[oliebrice]

Having settled on strings for now, I've inevitably started thinking about microphone pickups. Has any one here tried the AMT through a Gallien Kruger? and if so,what are you using for a pre-amp? I'm worried that I could spend all that money only to expose the limitations of my amp and need to spend even more money...

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I tried it, and it was not bad. I was running through my Raven Labs blender; can't recall if I was blending any pickup signal. The GK would probably not be my first choice to use with the AMT, but I'd try it for awhile before I'd go amp shopping.

That said, my purchase of the AMT mic led directly to my purchase of my iAMP 800 Combo. I've been without the mic for awhile; it's being rebuilt and converted to a tailpiece mount. I can't wait to get it back.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

I use an AMT tailpiece mounted mic with an Acoustic Image Coda combo amp. You don't need a pre with the Coda other than the required AMT supplied black box. I would not recommend using the AMT alone with any combo amp. Even with the AMT, feedback becomes an issue at higher volumes with the speaker behind you. However, I mix the AMT with a Full Circle and get what I think is a good amplified acoustic sound in all but the loudest situations.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I would not recommend using the AMT alone with any combo amp.

It works fine by itself with the iAMP, but that is probably stretching the definition of "combo amp".

 

[greitzer]

Has any one here tried the AMT through a Gallien Kruger? and if so,what are you using for a pre-amp? I'm worried that I could spend all that money only to expose the limitations of my amp and need to spend even more money...

Indeed, I regret spending all that dough on a setup that didn't work out. I tried the AMT mic through my GK MB150 combo amp, and couldn't get enough sound out of it to use anywhere outside of my own practice room. No matter what I did, this setup doesn't produce enough sound to use on a gig. I tried it with just the preamp that comes with the AMT mic, and I also tried running from that preamp into a Fishman Platinum Plus EQ preamp, tried all the different settings on the Fishman pre, tried different cables and jacks, everything. If any musician was playing any instrument anywhere within five miles of me, I couldn't hear myself.

My GK amp works just fine with pickups like the Underwood and the Rev Solo, and the amp also works beautifully with a Sennheiser e609 mic that I stuff behind the tailpiece. But with the AMT, it was a bad match.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

One thing you need to keep in mind is that Marty Paglione the designer of the AMT mic does not recommend using the mic with ANY combo amp. Several of us here are using it with combo amps, but you have to keep in mind that this is not an ideal solution. If you haven't listened to Invalid Link Removed, I highly recommend that you do. There is a ton of good info about using mics with any acoustic instrument.

 

[greitzer]

Bob -- thanks, that is very interesting information and explains a lot. I think I am a classic case of the phrase "let the buyer beware." I thought I had done sufficient research on the AMT mic before I bought it, but obviously I didn't. The interivew you linked in your post was helpful. Thanks.

 

[oliebrice]

Thank you all for your help, I reckon you've saved me quite a bit of dosh!

 

[Wil Davis]

One thing you need to keep in mind is that Marty Paglione the designer of the AMT mic does not recommend using the mic with ANY combo amp. Several of us here are using it with combo amps, but you have to keep in mind that this is not an ideal solution. If you haven't listened to Invalid Link Removed, I highly recommend that you do. There is a ton of good info about using mics with any acoustic instrument.

Great link. Interesting discussion, once you get over the distraction that the interviewer (Tony Miceli) sounds like he's conducting the interview from the bathroom…

- Wil

PS: Just finished listening to the whole thing, and it's uncanny just how much Tony Miceli sounds like Bob Newhart on the phone to Sir Walter Raleigh (remember that sketch?)

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Olie - for me, the keys for successfully using any mic through an amp are the following:

1) Get the amp up and over the body of the bass; the body acts as a big sound gathering diaphragm, so that it becomes a part of the microphone, and thus part of the potential feedback loop. I've posted this pic before, but this is my solution to this step:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (thanks yet again to Joe Smithberger for taking and hosting these pics!)

2) Mute the afterlength of the strings. While it's true that this dries up the sound somewhat, it also allows the more of the "potent" amplifiable signal to pass through while getting rid of a lot of the ambient sonic ****age that can cause feedback at lower levels.

3) Blend the mic signal with a pickup signal if possible. The mic provides the "wood and air" on the outside of the sound, and the pickup provides the solidity in the center of the sound. It's a sonic illusion, but one that works: you really don't need all that much mic signal to make the overall tone sound much better

4) Make sure that the mic on your bass is positioned so as to reject as much other noise on the bandstand (bass drum and cymbals are the worst) as possible.

In my experience, hi-fi amps are the best for all of this, but the truth is that any amp can be used for this purpose, and that if you experiment and do some homework (like practicing with the concept that your amplified sound is an extension of your acoustic sound), you can always improve your live sound at least a little. Old school guys scoff at the idea of practicing with an amplifier, but I don't...I figure that if I'm playing with an amp, it makes sense to practice understanding what the amp is putting out by practicing with the amp occasionally. Also, be aware that what sounds good right up close to an amp is often darker than what will project well out front. If you ever get a chance to do it, try a practice session where you are standing 10-15 feet away from where you would normally be for a few minutes - I've done that, and it taught me a bunch.

Good luck!

 

[Bob Branstetter]

I think one of the reasons I've been able to use the AMT successfully with my Contra and Coda combo amps on the ground directly behind my bass is that the downward firing speaker (that some folks here don't like) is not directional like a front mounted speaker and less likely to turn the bass tables into sound gathering diaphragms as Chris suggested.

I'm sure that Chris's elevated system would work better, but I try to avoid carrying and setting up anything more than I must have for the job and still sound good. The older I get, the more important "light" has become

 

[Adrian Cho]

Using the AMT (as with any mic on the bass) is very much about how you use it. To begin with you need to have a strong acoustic sound. If you don't have that you can forget about using the mic because you'll have to have the gain up just that much more to get the sound and of course with that will come the noise and inevitably the feedback. Also positioning yourself and the bass to minimise bleed and feedback is definitely key. I think that a front firing speaker is no problem but for example I always have it to my left and have the bass rotated around so that the mic is pointing up to 45 degrees away from the forward firing direction. Effectively the speaker is behind the back of the bass so there's no way the mic can "see" it.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

. To begin with you need to have a strong acoustic sound. If you don't have that you can forget about using the mic because you'll have to have the gain up just that much more to get the sound and of course with that will come the noise and inevitably the feedback.

Amen... good point.

Marty P. was surprised to find that I was attempting to use the AMT by itself. For me, the progression of amplification is; unamped, AMT (or other mic), and then pickup as needed. Loud strings help; I could get away with a lot more mic when I had the Animas on there. That's why I'm driving everyone crazy with all the gut string questions lately.

PS.... I've also had some success with the contra, as long as the volume isn't too loud.

 

[oliebrice]

hmm, confusing. yesterday I was convinced not to get a mic until I could also afford a better amp, now I'm unsure again....
I have a pretty strong acoustic sound, I gig as much as possible without an amp. Its because I love playing unamped so much that I have started thinking about the AMT, as I really dislike the sound of my BassMax and GK.
I think people have come to expect the bass to be uneccesarily loud - often on gigs I think the acoustic sound is plenty, and people at the back of the room say they can hear me clearly, but other musicians will ask me to use an amp.
Anyone on here got experience with the accusound setup? that seems to be the english equivalent of the AMT.

 

[Wil Davis]

hmm, confusing. yesterday I was convinced not to get a mic until I could also afford a better amp, now I'm unsure again....
I have a pretty strong acoustic sound, I gig as much as possible without an amp. Its because I love playing unamped so much that I have started thinking about the AMT, as I really dislike the sound of my BassMax and GK.
I think people have come to expect the bass to be uneccesarily loud - often on gigs I think the acoustic sound is plenty, and people at the back of the room say they can hear me clearly, but other musicians will ask me to use an amp.
Anyone on here got experience with the accusound setup? that seems to be the english equivalent of the AMT.

I agree with what you say about the acoustic sound, but remember that what you hear when you're standing next to your bass is not necessarily what your audience is hearing out in the middle of the room - the only way to deal with that is to recognise its existence.

I used to use a Bass Max (I think I still have it somewhere) with my GK, but I found it worked better with a preamp (either the K&K or Raven Labs PMB-1). When I discovered the Full-Circle, I ditched the K&K stuff; I still use the FC when I need "loud", but prefer using a mic (see threads passim); I don't know if you've tried the PJB Briefcase - I was astounded when I heard one live; that's what I now use for my smaller gigs - it's so convenient, sounds great with the FC, and will run from its own battery!

FWIW -
- Wil

 

[bolo]

Anyone on here got experience with the accusound setup? that seems to be the english equivalent of the AMT.

...

To begin with you need to have a strong acoustic sound. If you don't have that you can forget about using the mic because you'll have to have the gain up just that much more to get the sound and of course with that will come the noise and inevitably the feedback.

oliebrice, I think I've seen references to Accusound, but only in magazine advertisements.

Do you have access to a dynamic mic that you could try out through your GK instead of a condenser like the AMT? Got any Shures or Sennheisers lying around?

From what I've gathered, you might get more useable gain before feedback, and find a mic that you like that's less expensive. I have been rereading this thread recently. It might satisfy your craving for that acoustic sound for less than what you'd pay for the AMT.

As soon as I order a Beyer M88 (thanks larry) and compare it side by side to my AMT, I might actually be able to tell you a great deal more.