Double Bass An Ehrlund blog, sort of

[Ric Vice]

I think I'm about to give up on my ehrlund. The FC gets more play time and praise from engineers and other players and I just got a lifeline for arco work.

Robin,
While, there are certainly many basses where the Ehrlund may not be the ideal pickup, I've only used it in conjunction with either, the Ehrlund Pre Amp, or the Headway EDB-2. It doesn't have the gain or timbre that I'm looking for without
using it with it's own pre amp. Goran Ehrlund expressly designed it, as a system, so the Pre Amp is integral to getting what Sorry it didn't work for you.

Ric

 

[Robin Ruscio]

I've always used the preamp. It's just so fussy. Maybe I will move it around a little more and see if I can find the sweet spot.

 

[flatback]

Revisiting the Schertler Stat B is the right compromise between what for me was a nice sound sometimes when it wasn't fussy with the EAP (although on gigs it had a curious lack of balls) and on the other spectrum a Piezo (the Underwood) which has balls aplenty but can be elecrticy (although the Headway does wonders for it).

 

[Ric Vice]

I've always used the preamp. It's just so fussy. Maybe I will move it around a little more and see if I can find the sweet spot.

Robin,
Funny thing about that, I just put mine where Ehrlund's little one page instruction leaflet indicated it ought to go and it worked fine. Apparently, their are differences in the thickness of the top from one
bass to the next, that determine just how well the EAP works on a particular bass.

Revisiting the Schertler Stat B is the right compromise between what for me was a nice sound sometimes when it wasn't fussy with the EAP (although on gigs it had a curious lack of balls) and on the other spectrum a Piezo (the Underwood) which has balls aplenty but can be elecrticy (although the Headway does wonders for it).

Piro,
Never had that problem myself, apparently the EAP works best on instrument with a really active top at a spot where the top is thinner. Just a guess on my part, however. The Underwood is a great piezo, Don spent a lot of time figuring it out.

Ric

 

[Fran Diaz]

Ric,
Do you use the EDB-2 DI to send a signal to the FOH? While I'm researching for a preamp I have found weird that the Headway EDB-2 doesan't offer a pre/post EQ option.

 

[drurb]

Revisiting the Schertler Stat B is the right compromise between what for me was a nice sound sometimes when it wasn't fussy with the EAP (although on gigs it had a curious lack of balls) and on the other spectrum a Piezo (the Underwood) which has balls aplenty but can be elecrticy (although the Headway does wonders for it).

EAP lack of balls? Wow, given its superiority at transducing tge attack/decay, I've found it to have balls aplenty.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

He said, "Balls aplenty."

 

[Ric Vice]

Ric,
Do you use the EDB-2 DI to send a signal to the FOH? While I'm researching for a preamp I have found weird that the Headway EDB-2 doesn't offer a pre/post EQ option.

Yes I do, and no it doesn't offer a pre/post option on what you send to the house. I actually prefer that, but other's may not. I've not had any issues with sending my EQ to the house as
they can still EQ the sound.

Ric

 

[PB+J]

So I've been using the Ehrlund pickup for over two years now, and I really like it. I'm not a great bass player. I play in small time local gigs. Lots of subbing, varied styles, lots of crappy venues with bad power, no room, lousy acoustics. Venues with sound guys who have no clue.

It's very effective and very consistent. It sounds less like a piezo than any piezo I've ever played. It's not annoying to hear. I use it most often with an EDB1 and a mackie DLM8 on a pole. I have the Ehrlund preamp but never use it--I really dislike that thing: it feels flimsy and I dunno, dumb. It's just gain. Using it complicates the signal chain with little or no benefit that I can hear compared to the EDB1. I know lots of people swear by it, and I believe them, but it never did anything for me and I don't even know where the damn thing is right now. It's true, though, that the Ehrlund kind of maxes out the gain on the EDB1. You really need to crank it. Tonight I tried a "tritonLink Removed" which is just an ultra high impedance fet preamp powered by phantom. I was very happy with the results plugged into channel 1 of the EDB1 and will likely just leave it plugged into the 1/4 cable I use with the Ehrlund. It allows the headway to work with less gain on the input channel.

The Ehrlund is a very good tool. it's not my dream tone--my dream tone is not attainable in crappy venues with dodgy acoustics and no room on the bandstand, nor is it attainable on outdoor stages with clueless sound guys. But the Ehlrund gives them a solid feedback resistant and effective tone to work with.

I think it's a really good pickup and I like it but don't love it. I know how to work with it by now so I get a decent tone with relatively little fuss. So consider this a serious recommendation after years of real-world use

 

[Ric Vice]

So I've been using the Ehrlund pickup for over two years now, and I really like it........
It's very effective and very consistent. It sounds less like a piezo than any piezo I've ever played. It's not annoying to hear. I use it most often with an EDB1 and a mackie DLM8 on a pole. I have the Ehrlund preamp but never use it--I really dislike that thing: it feels flimsy and I dunno, dumb. It's just gain. Using it complicates the signal chain with little or no benefit that I can hear compared to the EDB1.

These days, just like you I'm using the Ehrlund Pre Amp less than I used to, with my EDB-2, most of the time, it's not as crucial.

I know lots of people swear by it, and I believe them, but it never did anything for me and I don't even know where the damn thing is right now. It's true, though, that the Ehrlund kind of maxes out the gain on the EDB1. You really need to crank it. I was very happy with the results plugged into channel 1 of the
EDB1 and will likely just leave it plugged into the 1/4 cable I use with the Ehrlund. It allows the headway to work with less gain on the input channel.

The EAP's gain structure, is linear, so it doesn't have that bump that a Realist or Full Circle has. What it does have is great frequency response across all the registers of the Double Bass.

The Ehrlund is a very good tool. it's not my dream tone--my dream tone is not attainable in crappy venues with dodgy acoustics and no room on the bandstand, nor is it attainable on outdoor stages with clueless sound guys. But the Ehlrund gives them a solid feedback resistant and effective tone to work with.
I think it's a really good pickup and I like it but don't love it. I know how to work with it by now so I get a decent tone with relatively little fuss. So consider this a serious recommendation after years of real-world use

I love it, but as you say no pickup is ideal for every playing situation, you might come across, I've had mine for over three years now, and it's worked wonderfully.

 

[drurb]

Yup. No pickup is the be-all, end-all. Still, I've yet to find a situation in which the EAP didn't work in the sense that I thought a previously used pickup would have been superior. There have been many situations where the opposite was true! That is, where another pickup would be frustrating and the EAP sailed right through. I still use the Ehrlund pre. It seems to load the EAP optimally and that's where any advantage lies. Also, as has been discussed here before, my own measurements revealed its frequency response to be ruler flat, so it is superior, for the EAP, to "voiced" pre-amps.

BTW, the input impedance of the Ehrlund pre is ~5 Mohm. Likely, 4.7 Mohm.

 

[aaronallen]

The EAP has been my pickup of choice since it first came out, but there are so many variables with it, it can be frustrating. The placement on the top is important of course but the adhesive putty also plays a key role. I have two different kinds and I've found that the slightly firmer brand gives about twice the volume and much better low end response, so that is definitely something to experiment with. Also the amount of putty you use and where you place it is highly important. Using less putty generally gives a better sound but too little and you risk the pickup falling off during performance. I place each putty ball in the corners of the pickup but not so close to the edge that there is some creeping out onto the sides of the pickup as I found that this kills the sound.
I always use the EAP pre. A word of warning: when you change the battery, be careful sliding the circuit board out. If you pull it out by the volume knob, you will eventually break it because the only thing attaching the volume pot to the board are the solder welds.

 

[Fran Diaz]

From Ehrlund's website:
"How do i use the putty supplied with the EAP Pickup?
The putty should be used as 3-4 mm diameter balls in the corners of the pickup triangle. Do NEVER place putty in the center of your pickup. Compress the balls so you will have around 2 mm of air under the pickup."

 

[Champagne]

The EAP has been my pickup of choice since it first came out, but there are so many variables with it, it can be frustrating. The placement on the top is important of course but the adhesive putty also plays a key role. I have two different kinds and I've found that the slightly firmer brand gives about twice the volume and much better low end response, so that is definitely something to experiment with. Also the amount of putty you use and where you place it is highly important. Using less putty generally gives a better sound but too little and you risk the pickup falling off during performance. I place each putty ball in the corners of the pickup but not so close to the edge that there is some creeping out onto the sides of the pickup as I found that this kills the sound.
I always use the EAP pre. A word of warning: when you change the battery, be careful sliding the circuit board out. If you pull it out by the volume knob, you will eventually break it because the only thing attaching the volume pot to the board are the solder welds.

I totally agree about setting the eap up. It is so sensitive that I don't take it off my main bass to put on my other because bringing it back and getting the same sound is nearly impossible.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

My Ehrlund is getting a little more experimenting again.

First, I moved it around and found a better location. Second, I've just installed a Gage Lifeline and am using it blended through my EDB-1. Did some recording at home today and pretty impressed with the blend of the two. Previously, I had tried blending with the FC and it wasn't a great combo. The lifeline is darker and seems to compliment the attack the Ehrulnd provides.

It's a bit of a setup, though, so probably will be reserved for bigger gigs and not casuals. The lifeline sounds good on it's own for sure.

 

[Ric Vice]

My Ehrlund is getting a little more experimenting again.

First, I moved it around and found a better location. Second, I've just installed a Gage Lifeline and am using it blended through my EDB-1. Did some recording at home today and pretty impressed with the blend of the two. Previously, I had tried blending with the FC and it wasn't a great combo. The lifeline is darker and seems to compliment the attack the Ehrulnd provides.

It's a bit of a setup, though, so probably will be reserved for bigger gigs and not casuals. The lifeline sounds good on it's own for sure.

That's encouraging. The EAP takes some placement adjustments, to find the sweet spot. When it works it's amazing, it just isn't as forward sounding as the Realist, or Full Circle. Compatibility across a large number
of different basses doesn't seem to be one of its strengths. For me personally, it's the ideal sound.

Ric

 

[Robin Ruscio]

You know, I had the location of it dialed in a year or so ago but then I had some work done on the bass and had a new sound post Installed. The eap ended up sounding really different. The old location didn't work. Took me some time to get back to dialing in it again.

The thing is very fussy.

I think I'm about to spring for a used AMT microphone. I'll be comparing this pick up against that Mic for competition on a blended signal with my lifeline. Perhaps they'll both come in useful in different settings.

 

[Don Sibley]

I think I'm about to spring for a used AMT microphone. I'll be comparing this pick up against that Mic for competition on a blended signal with my lifeline. Perhaps they'll both come in useful in different settings.

I've auditioned the AMT a few times. It would not be my choice for backline amplification. Take a look at the Troll mic (there are a couple of threads around here). I use the DPA but only for FOH. I gave up on using a mic for backline.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

I should've clarified; for foh through blender. No backline in the pit. They only want one channel

 

[SVT4001]

Well folks, I'm on the bandwagon, such as it is. After doing quite a bit of research, I finally ponied up for an EAP. I would like to publicly thank everyone who has written about their positive, negative and indifferent experiences with this unit, with extra special thanks going out to Drurb, Ric Vice, and Mark Gollihur. It's great when people are kind enough to share their opinions, but even better when people offer solid, objective information. I am grateful to have TBDB as a resource- thank you all!

I spent a few days experimenting with the pickup at my home- searching for the elusive "sweet spot". I found a location that's "okay", and with more work, I'm sure I'll find something better, but even if I don't, it's already a "keeper".

I played my first gig with it today- a straight ahead jazz quartet. Romanian flatback shop bass (Spiro Mittel), EAP into AI CodaR Series 3 with AI Contra Extension cab, line out from CodaR into FOH. The stage sound from the AI's was a bit "thunky", is that a word? IDK- I can best describe it as a funny midrange hump. I tried to dial it out, but didn't have time to. It sounded okay- certainly better than any sound I've gotten in quite a while (IMHO). My band mates said it sounded great in the house.

Another issue that I am experiencing is in regard to arco playing. The sound of the EAP is fine, but bowed bass is louder than pizz- obviously. I like to bow a lot. It's usually not a problem when I play without an amp because the rest of the band is also playing acoustically, and the ensemble adjusts. To date, we (I) can't play as delicately with sound reinforcement. I'll have to figure something out. The CodaR does have two discrete channels, so maybe I can get an A/B switch and use one for arco and the other for pizz, or perhaps a volume pedal is the solution. We'll see...any advice would be most welcome- thanks in advance.

Regardless- I am certain that I will be able to work out the issues I am currently experiencing. I'll post more as things develop.

Again, thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, and all of the other EAP threads!

Joe