Another Church players topic-Post: amplification

[joelb79]

Well this week i'm going to take my mini-rig of doom and attempt to go PA-less.

Markbass LMII > 2x Epifani UL2-112's

I love that God loves the low end.. I was woken up by thunder today.. 4 hours of thunder actually

 

[tedw]

...Having said that, in your particular situation, that may have been the correct decision on your part.

Thanks

...Personally, I will never play in a church that says I cannot control my own stage sound by using an amplifier that I control.

Michael - I appreciate your perspective, and I've felt that way myself before; and I've walked as you described. I'm not sure I'd do it again though. My wife and I love our pastor and made the choice to work within the existing constraints. The result was frustrating for a while, but is now very positive. We now have a lot more influence over the worship program because we've somehow one the confidence of the leadership. That would never have happened if we had walked. The technical side of worship can get pretty frustrating. On the other hand, it's pretty amazing to see a strong response to an alter call and realize that God used worship team toward the objective of winning souls for Christ. Serving God is what we're after, right? I mean, what if GOD HIMSELF asked me to go without the Baby Blue, would I do it or would I walk? In a heartbeat, brother, in a heartbeat that Baby Blue would be gone. Ted

 

[tbrannon]

I used to resist this more, but realized that this was setting a poor example (failing to submit to leadership) for the other musicians. So I adapted.

I started out my musical career 30+ years ago playing in bars and now I play exclusively in church. I would play in musicals if I had time, but there is no question that playing in church is one of the best things that's ever happened to me. God's the best boss I've ever had. It's a pleasure and privilege working for Him.

+1000 on all fronts. Good on ya.

 

[rfclef]

I have been using my Ashdown Electruc Blue 15-180. We have a sound guy, but I kinda like having my own amp there. We have a new pastor coming in, and he is going to handle the worship too (he is a pretty mean guitar player). If he asks me to run into the sound system, no prob. I enjoy playing, but whatever is going to add to the service and worship. that is the main point...

 

[eedre]

I'm priviledged to play out of an old Fender Bassman 10 (4x10 combo '72 - '82). Not too great - can't get bass out of it, sounds like playing through guitar drivers...

 

[jmain]

My church has historically preferred the silent-stage approach, so I bought a pair of high-end open-back headphones (Senn.). I send a direct feed to the board from my SWR Baby Blue combo (2-8" speakers). I bring the Baby Blue for two reasons: (1) If the sound engineers are slow to get the sound going, I can still support the choir in getting their rehearsal started on time and (2) on occasion it works to have me turn it up a bit as an on-stage monitor.

The silent-stage approach is not my favorite, but I have learned to adjust thanks to the quality headphones. I used to resist this more, but realized that this was setting a poor example (failing to submit to leadership) for the other musicians. So I adapted.

I started out my musical career 30+ years ago playing in bars and now I play exclusively in church. I would play in musicals if I had time, but there is no question that playing in church is one of the best things that's ever happened to me. God's the best boss I've ever had. It's a pleasure and privilege working for Him.

It's been tough for me, but I've had to go exclusively to headphones on Sunday. My wife got me some nice headphones, so I just try to roll with it. However, I just started to play for Him outside the church and the minister likes it LOUD!!! I had to get a 4x10!

I agree with Michael that you don't follow the wrong path. I applaud you Tim for following where you should and being obedient. I know it wasn't easy, man.

 

[elwood]

I have been using my Ashdown Electruc Blue 15-180. We have a sound guy, but I kinda like having my own amp there. We have a new pastor coming in, and he is going to handle the worship too (he is a pretty mean guitar player). If he asks me to run into the sound system, no prob. I enjoy playing, but whatever is going to add to the service and worship. that is the main point...

I use an Ashdown EB 180 (12 in. speaker), but I like to add an extension cab to it. Since the only one I have is pretty heavy (VL210), lately I just bring the cab and my EA 500 head and leave the combo at home. I play in a town hall (the church currently has no building of its own), and I don't need much volume. The combo is way more than enough, but it doesn't have the tone of the EA rig.

 

[Hawkeye]

Ted, this is only true if a church's leadership knows enough about technical issues to be respected, and it also depends on the building's acoustics. Church leaders are neither always right, nor to be obeyed unfailingly. Basically, same in many respects as one's parents.

Having said that, in your particular situation, that may have been the correct decision on your part.

Personally, I will never play in a church that says I cannot control my own stage sound by using an amplifier that I control.

Agree, the vast majority of leadership opinion on these types of matters in the church is uninformed and therefore constitutes prejudice. Although I may choose to obey for the sake of the weaker brother (ignorant elders or complaining members), I would feel no obligation to obey.

That being said, I'm glad our P.A. is so crappy I that I have to use my Genz Benz GBE600 / Neox 212T or there would be no way to hear the bass.

Anyway, our pastor used to play drums in a band so he is cool with the "amps on stage" phenomenon and has told people who don't like it to "get over it". If the guitarists and myself did not use our own amps, we would not be heard effectively in our setup.

 

[tedw]

Anyway, our pastor used to play drums in a band so he is cool with the "amps on stage" phenomenon and has told people who don't like it to "get over it". If the guitarists and myself did not use our own amps, we would not be heard effectively in our setup.

Hawkeye,

Sounds like you have a fun Pastor. Good for you!

Ted

 

[tedw]

It's been tough for me, but I've had to go exclusively to headphones on Sunday. My wife got me some nice headphones, so I just try to roll with it. However, I just started to play for Him outside the church and the minister likes it LOUD!!! I had to get a 4x10!

Jmain,

I know it's tough to transition to headphones. I admit that I put up a pretty good resistance to this change myself, and I still occaissionally try to go with room sound... but that does not always work. I'm curious what kind of phones you got.

When I got my Sennheiser HD 650 (or was it the 595?) phones it made a huge difference in my ability to "feel the music through headphones. The Senns are a little dark, but if I turn up the master treble on the Aviom mixer, it works very well. I really like the open-back feel as well.

Hang in there and keep on rockin' for the Lord!

Ted

 

[rfclef]

I use an Ashdown EB 180 (12 in. speaker), but I like to add an extension cab to it. Since the only one I have is pretty heavy (VL210), lately I just bring the cab and my EA 500 head and leave the combo at home. I play in a town hall (the church currently has no building of its own), and I don't need much volume. The combo is way more than enough, but it doesn't have the tone of the EA rig.

I am planning on adding something like the Ashdown Mag 210 to the 180 in the future, especially if my new pastor starts doing some outdoor services, and I want to try to find some hacks to play with when I get home from vacation in August (I am on the way to TX by way of Yellowstone park even as I type in a hotel in Missoula Montana...). Right now, the 180-15 is more than enough, though things may amp up when the new guy gets here... I do love te sound of the 180, though.

 

[SteveMcB]

I play my ATK's and Rhapsody 12ver through a biamped setup - I use a Peavey BAC-2 biamp bass chorus to split the lows to a Nemesis NC115 and the highs through my guitar setup (lotsa pedals and Mesa Subway blues 1x10 combo). The tube guitar amp rounds off the highs nicely, and my Boss OD3 on the highs for SVT-ish grit is great. The NC115 is great by itself too, but I am in love with my little biamp setup, and we often don't have an electric guitarist (or any guitarist for that matter) and being able to kick in some distortion on the highs really helps lift the chorus sometimes...

The sound guys DI both highs and lows, but our PA is not the best and a good deal of the sound comes from my setup. I have tried ampless via monitors and headphones, didn't really like it, but then we have a suboptimal PA.

Steve

 

[Buzzgroove]

Our church is based in the town hall which we hire each Sun. It's fairly large but the real prob is the very high ceiling and brick walls -the bass sound just gets lost in there - we've started using movable partions for notices and posters etc. and they've had the added benefit of soaking up the sound a bit.The other thing I don't like is the very high stage, it really separates you from the rest of the church so we play on the floor in front of it.
In the team there are two gutarists (one on acoustic) three vocals and more recently some brass in the form of trumpet or french horn, with the main guitarist usually playing through a marshall 50 watt combo. The P.A and monitors are used for vocals and acoustic and I play through my Ashdown Mag 300 2x10 combo with an Ashdown 4x10 extension. It's never up that loud really but the extension cab adds a great deal of depth which counteracts the hall wanting to eat up the bass sound!
Just added to my rig is a fairly cheap compressor which I bought years ago for recording and forgotten about in the depths of the cupboard, it's a Lem CLX2 and the the added zing and punch it adds is amazing, I've never been into processors but this is really giving me the sound I like, must try some higher end ones, if anyone has any suggestions?

Great thread by the way.

Allan

 

[Eublet]

I used in-ears for a long time at church. It was often very uninspirational, but I tried to maintain the attitude that my playing there was a service, not an opportunity for me to rock out. We've gone to stage amps lately, and this is indeed much more fun, but it creates all kinds of problems for the average Joe soundman. If they were to make a move back to Aviom I wouldn't resist in the least. I'm not there for me. Just my 2 cents.

 

[elwood]

I do love te sound of the 180, though.

Same here, had it for ~2 years now, very happy with it.

 

[jmain]

Jmain,

I know it's tough to transition to headphones. I admit that I put up a pretty good resistance to this change myself, and I still occaissionally try to go with room sound... but that does not always work. I'm curious what kind of phones you got.

When I got my Sennheiser HD 650 (or was it the 595?) phones it made a huge difference in my ability to "feel the music through headphones. The Senns are a little dark, but if I turn up the master treble on the Aviom mixer, it works very well. I really like the open-back feel as well.

Hang in there and keep on rockin' for the Lord!

Ted

At my former church, I led the revolt to get amps back on stage. Mainly b/c they had me standing right behind the baby-grand with it open. I couldn't even hear with the headphones. I was sucessful and the resistance faded. I've gone back and played an easter show and a Sunday and the worship leader has commented on how he misses the bass (new guy is using the hearbacks) and always asks me to turn up.

My wife bought me these Bose headphones strictly for stereo home use, but they sound 100x better than the ones the church provides. I rely a little on room sound and on these for now (one ear partially off). I only play once a month there and we haven't joined yet, so I haven't invested yet in HD650's or some others I was looking at. We don't have the Axiom system, it's just the old 6 channel hearback gig.

Hey, it's Baptist anyway, so I'm just happy they let me quit sitting on my hands and play some bass. Just kidding of course. Played with an ordained TX Blues playing/guitar wiedling/biker/minister last night. No headphones there!!

 

[OrionManMatt]

My wife bought me these Bose headphones strictly for stereo home use, but they sound 100x better than the ones the church provides. I rely a little on room sound and on these for now (one ear partially off). I only play once a month there and we haven't joined yet, so I haven't invested yet in HD650's or some others I was looking at. We don't have the Axiom system, it's just the old 6 channel hearback gig.

Do you prefer IEMs or "cans"?

Try looking around here for Invalid Link Removed and cans.

And if you can afford it, a little amplification will go far in improving the headroom and overall quality. See if you like their AirHead line--it's tiny.

I use the Ultimate Ears super.fi 5 Pro with a headphone amp. Unbelievably choice.




Oh, and the churches I usually play at always seem to use GK stuff. From the 700RBII/210 with the 115, to a 410RB/210. I usually mess around with the tweeter. Too harsh for me. Bleck. But love that low-mid and quickness!

 

[tuBass]

At our church, I go direct, but I also have a wedge monitor in front of me with the Drums (vdrums) bass, and acoustic guitar in there.

The singers have their own set of monitors, as does the keyboards. Every groups gets their own monitor mix, and the electric guitar player has one very small amp that we mic.

It works well for us, and nobody has to wear headphones. I've done that before, and I like this better.

 

[jmain]

Do you prefer IEMs or "cans"?

Try looking around here for Invalid Link Removed and cans.

And if you can afford it, a little amplification will go far in improving the headroom and overall quality. See if you like their AirHead line--it's tiny.

I use the Ultimate Ears super.fi 5 Pro with a headphone amp. Unbelievably choice.




Oh, and the churches I usually play at always seem to use GK stuff. From the 700RBII/210 with the 115, to a 410RB/210. I usually mess around with the tweeter. Too harsh for me. Bleck. But love that low-mid and quickness!

Those IEMs look nice. Been thinking about some good ones or different cans. Inevitably, there is some loud feedback during rehearsal. But most definitely the soundman is going to talk through everyone's mix to tell the drummer to turn up the hi-hat channel (lovely e-drums ) and blast my ears. So I don't trust him enough for the IEMs. Further and most unfortunate is that the FOH bass sounds about like it does in the cans.

Okay, I'm off the soapbox.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Those IEMs look nice. Been thinking about some good ones or different cans. Inevitably, there is some loud feedback during rehearsal. But most definitely the soundman is going to talk through everyone's mix to tell the drummer to turn up the hi-hat channel (lovely e-drums ) and blast my ears. So I don't trust him enough for the IEMs. Further and most unfortunate is that the FOH bass sounds about like it does in the cans.

Okay, I'm off the soapbox.

IEMs are only good if you have a monitor engineer or an Aviom setup. Pre-Avioms for my church, it was a nightmare. Now I'm completely happy.

And I just got a nice SWR Bass 350 for my DI for church usage!