• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Another PA vs bass amp question

NickInMesa

NickInMesa

Jan 1, 2009
3,397
51
57
Mesa, Arizona
#1
We played at a small venue last night and for $15 we got the CD of the gig burned.

Turns out there is barely no bass at all, you need to know it's there, and the guitar is almost absent. Voice, key and drums come out just fine.

The key originally wanted to be miked but the sound guy got him to play through a DI instead.

Me I was coming through my amp, which is a Peavey Tour 700W, through the DI in the back. I only brought the Tour 210, as we needed to be light, and this is a small venue, so maximum 500W through an 8ohm, but at about one third of the power, which is pretty loud for anybody less than 10 feet away.

The guitarist was using his tube head with an Avatar 210, I don't remember what head he uses, but he can make it scream. He got the blending treatment, of course. No mikey for me, but it's ok, I understand, small venue, several bands, ok.

I pushed my amp a bit, thinking as it was "for real" this time, I could use a bit of power. we did the sound check and was coming out loud.

Everyone could hear us just fine and the bass came out just fine from the stage, but apparently not through the PA at all.

I could attach a sound clip but I don't know if my band mates would agree.

Question is: is this normal for the PA to work as a "support" for your amp, or the amp is supposed to be basically a monitor as well as your main amp for the front of the stage?

I think the sound guy sucked, but that's my opinion.
 
#3
mwbonsall said:
Sounds like the sound guy sucked. What you hear on the CD is what was mixed through the main board, not the sound off the stage. Whatever the vocal mics picked up is what you got, and he didn't have you in the mains at all. Where was this at?

Mark
Click to expand...

UB's in Mesa. What scares me is that they have some bigger names coming up, including Epica & D.R.I.

I hope they have a different sound guy for these events.
 
#4
NickInMesa said:
I pushed my amp a bit, thinking as it was "for real" this time, I could use a bit of power. we did the sound check and was coming out loud.

Everyone could hear us just fine and the bass came out just fine from the stage, but apparently not through the PA at all.
Click to expand...

If you had enough stage volume to carry the room you were probably not in the PA that much. The CD is probably just the FOH mix.

If everybody could hear you just fine at the show this is almost certainly what was going on.
 
#7
projectMalamute said:
If you had enough stage volume to carry the room you were probably not in the PA that much. The CD is probably just the FOH mix.

If everybody could hear you just fine at the show this is almost certainly what was going on.
Click to expand...

+1

This is the problem with getting a straight "board tape" of the mix. It is not what people are hearing in the room, only what the mixer is putting out. In a small venue, the Soundman and the PA are compensating for stage volume. I am sure people in the room heard you just fine. This happens with drums quite a bit too since they are loud enough in the room but you may only be running a little kick in the house to beef it up, so a board mix is not what you are actually hearing in the room.

At a small venue that I mix at frequently, I mic the drums and only send the mics to the recording. (church gig with recordings posted online) If I didn't, the only drums on the recording would be bleed over into the vocal mics. The drums are blasting loud in the room, but I only ever run a bit of kick in the house. Most venues are not set up like this, however and they do not have time to tweak each mix with multiple bands playing.
 
#8
Those kind of recordings are always an "after thought". Any recording coming straight from the board at a smaller venue will be light on bass and drums and heavy on vocals, since your amp was probably doing a good job filling the room from the stage. The sound guy's job is to make you sound good in the room, not on the CD.
 
#9
...in addition, save yourself the $15, buy a hard-disc recorder (which are really inexpensive now) and an RCA to 1/8" cable or two XLR cables, depending on the recorder, and record all your shows for free. Just ask the soundman before the show if you can plug into the board; I've never had a problem with it.
 
#11
Depends. Some, like the Zoom H4, actually have two internal mics plus two XLR inputs, so in theory, you can run a stereo XLR out from the board and mix that with the sound you get from the mics, which is pretty cool. Not all soundboards will have the XLR outs available, however. For years, I've been recording my gigs with an old minidisc player/recorder and a Sony stereo mic. It's not pro quality, but certainly good enough to get an idea of how the band sounded.
 
#12
oggdawg said:
Depends. Some, like the Zoom H4, actually have two internal mics plus two XLR inputs, so in theory, you can run a stereo XLR out from the board and mix that with the sound you get from the mics, which is pretty cool. Not all soundboards will have the XLR outs available, however. For years, I've been recording my gigs with an old minidisc player/recorder and a Sony stereo mic. It's not pro quality, but certainly good enough to get an idea of how the band sounded.
Click to expand...

Thanks. My intention was primarily to hear myself and analyze my mistakes. The $15 are not wasted as the singer can fix her mistakes (the key guy goofed a couple times, but he knows it). As for me, you really have to know I was playing.
 
#13
Use DI output to the board next time, and have your bass low on stage.

I've had the same problem a few times, and solved it by overdubbing a bass line onto the recording at home ---
Load the live track onto your computer or a 4-track or whatever, and play along with your bass. Always sounds great, especially if you do it the next day and you can remember the show fresh in your head. If you mix it well, it will sound absolutely live. Mingus did this for the Massey Hall concert.

You will probably be able to do it in 1 take, and it's really fun, and yet another great way to analyze any problems happening on stage as far as tempo, set list arrangement, etc.
 
#14
I've previously asked a friend to operate my Edirol R-09 digital recorder to record some songs. Just position the friend in an appropriate spot in the venue to get a good sound and ask them to record some songs. We obtained some good results this way.

These digital recorders are extremely easy to use now and sound surprisingly good. That way you get the house mix.
 
#15
modulusman said:
Your mistake was "pushing" your amp. If you would have turned down then the soundman would have turned you up at the board. Then you would have been louder on the CD.
Click to expand...

+1 Yeah! I always keep the volume down. I've blown speakers trying to keep up with the PA. Not good. Plus most singers hate it when they get hit upside the back of the head with a wall of bass.:D
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back