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Another Red Flag On The Ampeg PF-500.....

#341
Remus_Redbone said:
Yep, same company, but those were decisions to reduce costs, not a plan to reduce quality, even if that was the unintended outcome. If you disagree with their decisions, you can vote against that company by spending your dollars with their competitors. That was my decision.
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Sorry, dude - but the above doesn't jive with what you said earlier:

"I don't believe for a second that Ampeg was willing to give up quality for profit, and I don't believe for a second that Ampeg doesn't care about their customers."

Do you really think Ampeg believed that the quality of their product would remain the same after moving their production overseas, TWICE??? If so, that sorta contradicts the whole "Heritage" product line build up, don't you think??? Also, I would say that moving their production like they did, without passing along atleast a little cost savings to their customers demonstrates a lack of caring about their customers...


- georgestrings
 
#342
Downunderwonder said:
Don't underestimate the power of google to measure internet traffic. When the most popular page on the web, after Ampeg's own, is about faulty pf500 failed failure of a design the failures will come home to roost.
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That is a fair point for sure. I also take what is posted on the internet with a grain of salt. Not everything you read on the internet is fact. If I am ready to purchase any product, whether it be a mouse from Razer or a bass or an amp I take all factors into consideration. There are quite a few threads praising these amps too.

I come to Talkbass for the dialogue, I think for the most part its very valuable, but I would be kidding myself if took every thread seriously, and as fact. Its good to get word out that there is a problem with these amps, but no one wants to read through 20 pages of whining. Whats wrong with keeping things constructive? What i am getting at is letting people know of a buyer beware is one thing, but defaming a company for one bad product is another. Then take into account that agreeing with their policy's on their business practice is subjective, and there tends to be quite a lot of hearsay.

Anyone with a high school education can weed out a QQ thread from a constructive thread. I am enjoying how we are now all talking semantics though. I love this kind of dialogue.
 
#343
B-string said:
The sad part and reality is if you could stick a couple jacks in a cow pie and get it to make noise just slap the name Ampeg on it and you'll sell a bunch. That is why MTI. SLM and LOUD Tech bought the name and rights, the brand recognition will make money. How much you make on the name depends on how you conduct your business.
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No doubt - they've certainly cheapened the SVT label with some of the stuff they've slapped that monikor on...


- georgestrings
 
#347
georgestrings said:
Sorry, dude - but the above doesn't jive with what you said earlier:

"I don't believe for a second that Ampeg was willing to give up quality for profit, and I don't believe for a second that Ampeg doesn't care about their customers."

Do you really think Ampeg believed that the quality of their product would remain the same after moving their production overseas, TWICE??? If so, that sorta contradicts the whole "Heritage" product line build up, don't you think??? Also, I would say that moving their production like they did, without passing along atleast a little cost savings to their customers demonstrates a lack of caring about their customers...


- georgestrings
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It's almost guaranteed they thought their quality would remain the same. They likely had multiple prototypes to test and may have made several revisions before they proceeded with production.

It's not unheard of that some manufacturers had an improvement in quality when they moved their production to Asia. Apple has had some unbelievably low fail rates with iPhones, iPads, & iPods that were produced in China. I'd bet 99.9% of the posts in this thread were made on devices manufactured in China.

Moving production to China / Asia isn't simple. An appliance company I was associated with agreed to buy refrigerator door hinges from a Chinese mfg. They provided the China group all the standards for the part: dimensions, Rockwell hardness, etc. The China group made several dozen of the hinges for evaluation, and they were great. Production commenced and a few months down the road, doors started falling off refrigerators on the assembly line here in the US. Seems the Chinese decided to cut costs and made changes to the metal quality. It was a mess because tens of thousands of defective parts were now in the supply chain from China to the production lines in the US.

I'm still sure Loud didn't move production to Asia with the expectation the quality of their products would take a dive. All other electronics manufacturers who have moved production to that part of the world also didn't expect that outcome. Some were caught off guard when it happened, and paid the price in loss of business. Others (Apple is one example) made sure it didn't happen & enjoy a good reputation. Ampeg / LOUD is learning a hard lesson in global economics with the PF500. They aren't the only ones...
 
#349
kirkm24 said:
I was very intrigued by these amps. Seemed like a lot of amp for the money and it had cool looks but it seems like a real risk to get one. I was going to get one and all but clicked the 'Place Order' button and thought twice as a result of the stories/nightmares I've heard about on here.
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That was me as well.

Note I've owned a few all-tube SVT in the past. So it's not like I'm an Ampeg hater. Just all of the horror stories about their newer Class D heads made me totally pass on that entire product line segment.
 
#350
i don't think it's just ampeg. these ultralights with the digital power supplies have problems.
I blew up a brand new GK MB II series, and I had a friend that blew his up at the exact same time. GC didn't act surprised at all when i took it back and didn't want another.
 
#351
TinyE said:
i don't think it's just ampeg. these ultralights with the digital power supplies have problems.
I blew up a brand new GK MB II series, and I had a friend that blew his up at the exact same time. GC didn't act surprised at all when i took it back and didn't want another.
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WRONG:D Class D/SMPS has been around for years and years. That being said, there are bad executions of amps of all designs (for example, the Mesa M9, the Ampeg PH series, and GK had some issues with the first MB amp they put out for a while, and those low line GK combo's are not quite there IMO). It has nothing to do with topology, it has EVERYTHING to do with design, quality components and manufacturing precision.

Just like ANY category of gear, there are models/brands I would stay away from. The Ampeg PH being discussed in this thread, and the lower end GK MB combo's are two that I don't recommend to anyone.

So, +1 on your specific issues, HUGE -1 to your suggestion that these rather dubious executions represent in any way the entire category.
 
#353
KJung said:
WRONG:D Class D/SMPS has been around for years and years. That being said, there are bad executions of amps of all designs (for example, the Mesa M9, the Ampeg PH series, and GK had some issues with the first MB amp they put out for a while, and those low line GK combo's are not quite there IMO). It has nothing to do with topology, it has EVERYTHING to do with design, quality components and manufacturing precision.
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+1

We posted almost at the same time. GK has ironed out a lot of issues and their MB line is reliable now.
 
#355
georgestrings said:
Sorry, dude - but the above doesn't jive with what you said earlier:

"I don't believe for a second that Ampeg was willing to give up quality for profit, and I don't believe for a second that Ampeg doesn't care about their customers."

Do you really think Ampeg believed that the quality of their product would remain the same after moving their production overseas, TWICE??? If so, that sorta contradicts the whole "Heritage" product line build up, don't you think??? Also, I would say that moving their production like they did, without passing along atleast a little cost savings to their customers demonstrates a lack of caring about their customers...


- georgestrings
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+1
 
#356
Some time ago I was looking for a new amp. Even after reading about the PF 350 problems I decided to give it a try anyway. I plugged into one at my local music store and it went dead shortly after. I was using a passive P-Bass and didn't have anything set very hot on the amp.
I walked away from that amp and checked out a GK MB115. I have gigged with it every weekend for almost two years now without any problems.
The choice was based to not buy the PF was based on what I had read here and my actual experience with the amp.
That experience hasn't turned me off to all Ampeg products. I have a small B-108 that I like for practicing and I have series GAS for the new V4B. I am paying attention to see if any problems surface with that amp.
 
#359
AMJBASS said:
That statement is far too general. There are several companies out there using class D power amps without the problems expressed in this thread(Genz Benz, Aguilar, Tecamp for instance).
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You do pay a premium for these, but that should not be a surprise. Neither should buying an amp at half the price and realizing it isn't one of these. ;)
 

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