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Another Shooting

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Dr. Cheese

Dr. Cheese

Supporting Member
Mar 3, 2004
57,291
120,445
Metro St. Louis
#1
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Obviously, I don't know how the investigation will turn out, but my initial feeling is that neighborhood watch person at minimum over reacted since he had already called the police and they were on their way. Zimmerman, the shooter is a Criminal Justice major. If this is any example of how he interacts with the public, at minimum, he should never be allowed to work in law enforcement.

For all I know, the shooting may be legally justifiable, but it was totally unnecessary because it there just seems to have been no reason for Mr. Zimmerman to confront the victim.
 
#2
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#5
I feel like I know nothing after reading this. To me it reads as "White guy shoots black kid for no reason". I see the race as being less important as the details as to what happened. Why was a kid walking down the street deemed to be a "threat" to a guy driving by in his car?
 
#7
fourstringdrums said:
I feel like I know nothing after reading this. To me it reads as "White guy shoots black kid for no reason". I see the race as being less important as the details as to what happened. Why was a kid walking down the street deemed to be a "threat" to a guy driving by in his car?
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As I said before, I do not know how this will turn out after in investigation, but from what I see now, it looks like a needless shooting by a wanna be cop.

It might prove to be legally justifiable, but I just have a hard time seeing this killing as necessary.
 
#8
Huffington Post said:
Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford Police Department on Thursday evening said the account given by Martin’s family and attorney is correct, that Zimmerman saw the young man walking home from the store. He said that Zimmerman did indeed call 911 and report a suspicious person, and that he was told not to follow him.

“For some reason he felt that Trayvon, the way that he was walking or appeared seemed suspicious to him,” Lee said. “He called this in and at one part of this initial call [the dispatcher] recommends him not to follow Trayvon. A police officer is on the way at that point.”

Lee said that Zimmerman instead followed Martin.

“I believe that Mr. Zimmerman was trying to, by his account, find an address to give the officers and also trying to keep Trayvon in eyesight.”

Zimmerman told the police that Martin noticed that he was being followed and asked, “what’s your problem?”

That's when a physical confrontation ensued, Lee said. And moments later, Martin was shot.

Lee said that Zimmerman has a legal permit to carry the weapon used in the shooting, and that he told police that he shot Martin in self-defense.

“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.

The chief said the police have met with Zimmerman on two to three separate occasions, and that their investigation should be wrapped up this week. He said all of the evidence in the case will be delivered to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office soon after.

“We’re going to present all the information and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we’re able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter,” Lee said.

“It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin Family,” Lee said. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back.”
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Source: Trayvon Martin's Family Calls For Arrest Of Man Who Police Say Confessed To Shooting (UPDATE)
 
#12
Phil Smith said:
Interesting, white guy with a gun is following a black teen, and when the black teen confronts the white guy with a gun, a physical confrontation insues and the white guy shoots the black teen.

White guy with a gun must be really connected.
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My concern is that given what we know at the moment, I would really be mad if Zimmerman gets off with a self defense claim. He had already called the police, and he did not have to follow the kid. Once the kid said something to him, all he had to do was stay in his car. In all fairness to the kid, he had no idea who this man was and why he was following him. The kid had every right to feel threatened himself because a stranger in a car was following him.

As I said before, this is an unnecessary killing. If the story holds up the way I think it will, the shooter should be charged with voluntary manslaughter.
 
#13
Dr. Cheese said:
My concern is that given what we know at the moment, I would really be mad if Zimmerman gets off with a self defense claim. He had already called the police, and he did not have to follow the kid. Once the kid said something to him, all he had to do was stay in his car. In all fairness to the kid, he had no idea who this man was and why he was following him. The kid had every right to feel threatened himself because a stranger in a car was following him.

As I said before, this is an unnecessary killing. If the story holds up the way I think it will, the shooter should be charged with voluntary manslaughter.
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This would have been interesting if the black teen had a gun and shot the "suspicious" white guy following him.
 
#15
The way most states laws read on this is as follows:

1) The Castle Doctrine doesn't apply, even in States like MI you can't initiate the contact and then claim self defense in a car-jacking

2) In order to engage someone in a justifiable shooting you have to have made every effort to avoid the confrontation including escaping on foot or by vehicle. So the shooter would have had to have been "cornered" for the entire confrontation.

3) You have to show a genuine reason to fear for your life. Did the kid produce a weapon? If not I suspect Zimmerman will be doing time.

The only way I see Zimmerman getting off is if an apparently innocent confrontation turned ugly fast by the kid producing a weapon or being significantly physically dominant over Zimmerman. If the "teen" was 6'5" 300 and Zimmerman is 5"2" 100 and if the teen was clearly aggressive (running him down) he might have a chance at getting off. I don't see it. It was pretty immature and reckless behavior by Zimmerman anyway.

The only hesitation I have about the story at this point is we don't have the results of an investigation, only a News story which may or may not be unbiased. I get the feeling there is more to this story than we're reading so far. If not Zimmerman certainly comes across as a police wannabe immature type at best. The other issue is, I can't imagine any city sanctioned neighborhood watch group (and most are at least semi-sanctioned) allowing its participants to be armed.
 
#16
Why not wait for the cops? Why was it so urgent that he confront this "suspicious" person? Was he kicking over garden gnomes or something?

No one needed to die here. Even if the boy acted a fool, which is not a stretch of the imagination given that he was presumably minding his own business, 17 years old and confronted by a strange white dude at night; there should never have been a confrontation in the 1st place.
 
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