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Answer to getting more volume?

O

Osama_Spears

Jan 7, 2003
4,266
1
37
Baltimore,MD
#1
playing in a 4 piece Death Metal Grind band, i need to cut through and be heard. the last show we played,without no PA help (small,small basement show) I was bearly audible, and my guitarist has a combo amp :(

I currently use :
OLP 5 string stringray -> SansAmp Preamp -> Ampeg B2R > Avatar 2x10 Neo cab(8 ohms).

I'm pushing 180 watts, and when I turn on the Sansamp my volume is killed.

the tone I am getting in my house,at low volume is great... but as I try to match the band's level, it gets muddy. :/

I was thinking of dropping to 4ohms, and getting another 2x10 Neo, so it'd be twice as much air moving,and almost twice as much wattage. What do you guys suggest I do?
 
#2
If the sansamp is killing your volume and tone, then ditch it, and just go straight through the B2R. SOunding great at low volumes and solo doesn't mean squat when nobody can hear you ar a gig.

My main rig right now, IMO sounds like crap solo at home, but in a gig it pounds so hard and cuts the mix like a hot knife in butta!!
 
#5
+1 on try playing straight thru the amp ... what you have should cover the scenario you described without a problem ... also, if you are having trouble cutting, or need more volume, work with EQ ... many people use too much bass, or scoop out the mids as that sounds best when playing alone, but mids are what can cut through a live mix ... and bass (EQ) sucks power like you wouldnt believe ... you have good gear, maybe work with the EQ ... try setting everything 'flat' (I seem to chase EQ all night long if I dont have a good reference starting point) and making changes at your guitar for starters ... or, maybe even work on more definition in your technique, sometimes 'muddy' can also be a result of muting issues ... good luck and good question ...
 
#7
Do you know if you're cutting through in front of the stage? Maybe it's just a matter of hearing yourself on stage. It can help a lot to have your cab on line with your ear. That means either having the whole cab up at ear level or tilting it up so it's aimed at your head. I wonder how many bass players think they need a tall stack when all that really does is get one cab up to ear level...
 
#8
In addition to my earlier post about stright to the B2R, and in addition to another poster about eq.....My general theory about eq is it is used to FIX problems, not create your sound. Generally when you have your eq all over the place to get "your sound", you are creating problems elsewhere.
For instance, if you boost your 40-60hz, you are essentially lowering the mids and highs. (percieved), then you boost the highs a bit, and you have a nice Solo scooped bass sound, now nobody in the crowd can hear you and you are washed out by the kick drum and the guitars. Setting eq for preferances of "your sound" is bassically chassing your tail.

this is all IMO of course
 
#9
The Sansamp is a great tool. You can use it to push mids. Just lower the treble/bass on it and raise the overall level. Maybe keep the presence/blend high.

You need more speakers though. I'd add a 1x15 if you can afford it.

It can take a ton of equpiment to really cut through in aggressive music.
 
#10
I would suggest buying an Ampeg SVT 410hlf and selling the 210. The B-2R could then run 350 watts into the 410. I love that cab and am amazed at how loud it will get. 350 watts would be an improvement. www.Bassnw.com has a used Ampeg 410HLF for $500.

More watts and more speakers is what will help you out. This is the worst part with all metal bassists, without enough cash, we will not be heard and/or not get a tone good enough.

Keep the Ultra-Mid knob straight at "5", turning it to the left will cut upper mids 800hz, while a right turn will cut the 400hz mids. The "5" placement will allow the bass to be more present and will not cut any mids. Best off keeping the tone knobs flat, putting the master at "5" and just increasing the EQ sliders until the sound can stick it out with the band.

Take out the Sansamp and just use the B-2R
 
#11
Osama_Spears said:
I currently use :
OLP 5 string stringray -> SansAmp Preamp -> Ampeg B2R > Avatar 2x10 Neo cab(8 ohms).

I'm pushing 180 watts, and when I turn on the Sansamp my volume is killed.
Click to expand...

There's your problem.
180 watts into a 2x10 is not going to be enough if you are playing Death Metal! There's just no way!
Sell the 2x10 and ditch the Ampeg B2R. If you like the tone of the Avatar gear, get yourself a 4x10 or a 2x12 from them.

If you dig the Ampeg tone look into an SVT 8 Pro if you can afford it. I would also recommend a Mesa Big Block 750 or an M-Pulse 600. Either would be very suitable for the music you are playing.
 
#13
More speakers always helps, but be carefull, more speakers means less ohms and if you don´t have enough Ohms, you might burn your amp. So, be shure to know how many ohms minimum You need. (If you don´t know how to calculate ohms, it´s explained somewhere overhere. Or maybe you just don´t hear yourself, but the audience does? Put your speakercase on a table and it might sound twice as loud as well.
 
#14
Osama_Spears said:
playing in a 4 piece Death Metal Grind band

... Avatar 2x10 Neo cab(8 ohms).

I'm pushing 180 watts
Click to expand...
More power, more speakers, more mids. Everyone else is saying the same thing and I'm just joining in.

The set up you have would work well for slightly larger than an acoustic gig and certainly NOT competing with two guitarists in a metal band. Consider getting a full stack, 8x10, 1x15 + 4x10, etc. and at least a 300 watt head.
 
#16
Gearhead17 said:
I would suggest buying an Ampeg SVT 410hlf and selling the 210. The B-2R could then run 350 watts into the 410. I love that cab and am amazed at how loud it will get. 350 watts would be an improvement. www.Bassnw.com has a used Ampeg 410HLF for $500.

More watts and more speakers is what will help you out. This is the worst part with all metal bassists, without enough cash, we will not be heard and/or not get a tone good enough.

Keep the Ultra-Mid knob straight at "5", turning it to the left will cut upper mids 800hz, while a right turn will cut the 400hz mids. The "5" placement will allow the bass to be more present and will not cut any mids. Best off keeping the tone knobs flat, putting the master at "5" and just increasing the EQ sliders until the sound can stick it out with the band.

Take out the Sansamp and just use the B-2R
Click to expand...


+1 I had the SAME set up- a B2R into an 8 ohm 2x10"cab- I fixed it by getting the SVT410HLF- 4 ohms- runs the B2R at full 350w & gives it a TON more volume & 'depth'! Simplest & poss. cheapest $ U would be to get a 1x15" ( 8 ohm)cab & run WITH the 2 x 10" cab U already have-giving U a 4 ohm load total & therefore running the B2R @ full power!!! Or sell the 2 x 10 & get a 4 ohm 4x10''
OR U could just get another 8 ohm 2x10 cab & then U'd be running the B2R@ full pwr, & have 4x10"s- but in 2 cabs= easier to move!!!
It's up 2 U!!!
Tell us what U decide on-eventually!




Rod.
 
#17
chaosMK said:
The Sansamp is a great tool. You can use it to push mids. Just lower the treble/bass on it and raise the overall level. Maybe keep the presence/blend high.

You need more speakers though. I'd add a 1x15 if you can afford it.

It can take a ton of equpiment to really cut through in aggressive music.
Click to expand...

Absolute truth, it can and it usually does.
 
#18
... my ears hurt ... the OP said he was playing in a "small, small BASEMENT" and he couldnt cover it with this gear ... hmmmm ... amidst all the good suggestions, wear ear plugs ... I am 52 and have been half deaf for the last ten years from music, running saws and racing sprint cars ... it may be cool now, but it aint worth it ... ouch!!
 
#19
As others have suggested, get another 8 ohm cab so you can draw all the wattage out of the B2R.
I used to have a B2R and a SVT210 + 115. The B2R is noted for being a rather quiet 350 watts. One tip I picked up from TB was to set the master on the B2R to the max and control your volume with the pre-amp level. According to a TB post, this was what Ampeg recommended to get the most out of that head.
 
#20
rodl2005 said:
..... I fixed it by getting the SVT410HLF- 4 ohms- runs the B2R at full 350w & gives it a TON more volume & 'depth'! .........
Rod.
Click to expand...


I have that SVT410HLF with an SVT4pro running it bridged thus sending out about 1200 watts.

I figured that I could get another SVT410HLF an run it biamped at 490 watts each cab if I needed more volume but ampeg said it wasn't enough and I should continue running it bridged! But I see you guys talking about about 350 watt.

It does sound good bridged though.
 

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