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Any Frank Zappa fans here?
- Thread starter Andy Coconut
- Start date
So true.
You could play someone Were Only In It For The Money, The Grand Wazoo, Overnight Sensation, Joes Garage and the Yellow Shark, chances are they wouldn't believe that they were from the same composer.
While not being a big fan of his post Mothers of Invention stuff, I have a deep respect for him and love his Mothers of Invention period.
The album Absolutely Free with The Mothers of Invention figures as one of my personal greatest records of all time.
The album Absolutely Free with The Mothers of Invention figures as one of my personal greatest records of all time.
He puts forth a quarter-ounce green +1, near the summit of a dense but radiant +1, of his own design.
By the same token acting like a fool and adding to the negativity and cruelty only further guarantees the continuance of the very things you claim to find so hard to bear.
If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. You can either spread a little light - or feed the shadow. Just no getting around that.
Frank spread a good deal of light! Don't deny the mans entire existence and body of work in your zeal to condemn his sense of humor. You have a limited amount of time and energy, how you spend it is up to you. What there's no getting around is the condemnation of small minds with little to do than criticize. So go spread some light and stop throwing shadow.
Well I guess you told me.
You really do need to lighten up a bit on the hyperbole and the straw men. If you disagree with my assessment that's fine. Wildly exaggerating what I said in order to make your point, which has little to do with what I actually said, is unfortunate. As are the personal insults.
I happen to admire Frank Zappa quite a bit. But I admire him in his entirety - good points and bad. Not some sanitized sugar coated cartoon version of him. I'll leave that version of the man to the inevitable studio docudrama that will one day grace the movie theaters.
I recently saw The Bizarre World Of Frank Zappa live a couple of weeks ago, sitting only 10 feet away from Scott Thunes. Man what a show!! I've studied the hell out of all the footage I can find on YouTube of him yet that night he was beyond anything I've seen him do. He has actually improved with age. He and Mike Keneally were blazing so hard all night.
I made the conscious decision that night not to tell people that I'm a musician any more! That whole band are super human musicioids.
I made the conscious decision that night not to tell people that I'm a musician any more! That whole band are super human musicioids.
Well I guess you told me.
You really do need to lighten up a bit on the hyperbole and the straw men. If you disagree with my assessment that's fine. Wildly exaggerating what I said in order to make your point, which has little to do with what I actually said, is unfortunate. As are the personal insults.
I happen to admire Frank Zappa quite a bit. But I admire him in his entirety - good points and bad. Not some sanitized sugar coated cartoon version of him. I'll leave that version of the man to the inevitable studio docudrama that will one day grace the movie theaters.
Ok, lightening up mode engaged. I did get carried away.
I don't agree with your assessment but to each his own. I see Zappa as a man with many talents. And as with all men, he has his share of eccentricities and flaws. Perfection is not to be found in any of us. We are neither the best, nor the worst thing we have done.
While one might not agree with his vision or behavior, does he then deserve condemnation for feeding the darkness? Granted, i don't know all there is to know about the man. I don't think he was a pedophile or serial killer though. Those certainly hide the light.
"40Hz said: ↑
By the same token acting like a fool and adding to the negativity and cruelty only further guarantees the continuance of the very things you claim to find so hard to bear.
If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. You can either spread a little light - or feed the shadow. Just no getting around that."
A little out of bounds there yourself, no?
Sorry, i just have to call out the absolutist attitude implied by your solution/problem/shadow/light pronouncement. That view impresses me as a simplistic attempt to define a complex reality.
That in itself is ok, if it's a necessary view to maintain a personal grip on reality. As a statement to universally assess the comprehensive value of a life, it fails hard, I get around that with ease.
Fair enough and point taken.
Perhaps I could have better clarified in my first post.
My point was that with Frank Zappa, you'r confronted by one of those rare individuals with one of the most unqualified claims to true musical genius to come along in the previous century. His place in musical history is pretty much unquestioned. But then (like Mozart if contemporary accounts of him can be relied upon) Frank does everything in his power to alienate those he deems unworthy of appreciating his work by cluttering things up with "humor" that has more in keeping with a locker room kegger than the caliber of the rest of his work. He was also (like Dylan) frequently combative and unnecessarily sarcastic and insulting during interviews that attempted to give him all the space he wanted to just talk about his music. It's a behavior all too typical of self confessed genius types. But so it goes.
If I criticize him, it's because I do care about his legacy. And my criticisms are confined to certain specific behaviors he displayed rather than the man himself. Just because I admire someone as a person or creative doesn't necessarily mean I will admire or agree with everything they do. By the same token, calling someone out for behaving inappropriately in a certain situation does not mean I'm out to destroy the person's reputation or besmirch their memory. If you removed a lot of his self-sabotaging behavior from the mix I think he would have been far more recognized and respected in his lifetime than he was. But apparently he preferred the lone misunderstood solitary genius schtick he scripted for himself.
I know there's apologists who argue he was playing a dadaist or surrealist game with all that. But I've read most of the classic surrealist manifestos. And I frankly think that beyond a very few notions found within them, most of it is a total cop out.
If I thought Frank Zappa was a fool I wouldn't waste the time saying anything. But he's not. And his music is rather astonishing on a lot of different levels. But unfortunately it's tainted by the juvenile and antisocial nonsense Mr. Zappa saw fit to season it with. Or at least it is for me. p
I just wish he could have just let his innate weirdness and light shine out like Joni Mitchell did rather than constantly try to play head games with people. Because that's a form of manipulation. And most people don't appreciate having that directed at themselves - whether you're "just kidding" or not.
Hope that better clarifies.
Fair enough and point taken.
Perhaps I could have better clarified in my first post.
My point was that with Frank Zappa, you'r confronted by one of those rare individuals with one of the most unqualified claims to true musical genius to come along in the previous century. His place in musical history is pretty much unquestioned. But then (like Mozart if contemporary accounts of him can be relied upon) Frank does everything in his power to alienate those he deems unworthy of appreciating his work by cluttering things up with "humor" that has more in keeping with a locker room kegger than the caliber of the rest of his work. He was also (like Dylan) frequently combative and unnecessarily sarcastic and insulting during interviews that attempted to give him all the space he wanted to just talk about his music. It's a behavior all too typical of self confessed genius types. But so it goes.
If I criticize him, it's because I do care about his legacy. And my criticisms are confined to certain specific behaviors he displayed rather than the man himself. Just because I admire someone as a person or creative doesn't necessarily mean I will admire or agree with everything they do. By the same token, calling someone out for behaving inappropriately in a certain situation does not mean I'm out to destroy the person's reputation or besmirch their memory. If you removed a lot of his self-sabotaging behavior from the mix I think he would have been far more recognized and respected in his lifetime than he was. But apparently he preferred the lone misunderstood solitary genius schtick he scripted for himself.
I know there's apologists who argue he was playing a dadaist or surrealist game with all that. But I've read most of the classic surrealist manifestos. And I frankly think that beyond a very few notions found within them, most of it is a total cop out.
If I thought Frank Zappa was a fool I wouldn't waste the time saying anything. But he's not. And his music is rather astonishing on a lot of different levels. But unfortunately it's tainted by the juvenile and antisocial nonsense Mr. Zappa saw fit to season it with. Or at least it is for me. p
I just wish he could have just let his innate weirdness and light shine out like Joni Mitchell did rather than constantly try to play head games with people. Because that's a form of manipulation. And most people don't appreciate having that directed at themselves - whether you're "just kidding" or not.
Hope that better clarifies.
I get it. I think we all would like our "heros" to be better people. I just try to appreciate their genius and not look hard at their shortcomings i guess. Some of my friends have qualities i don't like, muchless my heroes, but they don't have to be perfect to be my friend. I'm far from perfect, as my wife will attest!
I wish he had taken the opportunity offered him to help remake Poland though. Though musically we would have missed out, i think that would have been a greater use of his intelligence and creativity.
First heard "Apistrophe" when I was in 9th grade, became a fan immediately after.
My own personal fave albums
Apostrophe
Roxy and Elsewhere
Grand Wazoo
Overnite Sensation
One Size Fits All
Zappa in New York
Absolutely Free
We're Only In It For The Money
My own personal fave albums
Apostrophe
Roxy and Elsewhere
Grand Wazoo
Overnite Sensation
One Size Fits All
Zappa in New York
Absolutely Free
We're Only In It For The Money
There's a short fable by American humorist George Ade written back in 1900 whose moral has some resonance here:
Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: "It might have been."
Huge Zappa fan here, I can't believe I missed this thread until now!
Saw Frank live in concert 4 times from 1977 to 1984 (missed the '88 show because the band imploded before they made it to Houston). I've seen Dweezil at his ZPZ shows every time he's come to town (about 10 times or more at least). Dweezil's band always hangs out after shows for autographs and chat, and I've met and talked to him at a few of them, he's a really nice guy.
Long live the music of Frank Zappa!
Saw Frank live in concert 4 times from 1977 to 1984 (missed the '88 show because the band imploded before they made it to Houston). I've seen Dweezil at his ZPZ shows every time he's come to town (about 10 times or more at least). Dweezil's band always hangs out after shows for autographs and chat, and I've met and talked to him at a few of them, he's a really nice guy.
Long live the music of Frank Zappa!
