Any pros/cons about an Ampeg SVT-CL, 2010 model?

[jason the fox]

I'm looking at buying a 2010 SVT CL. Price is great (the guy is asking $900, and says its absolutely mint and barely used). Is there anything in particular that I should consider about that production year? Sorry if that's an open-ended question. I'm really not afraid of the 'made in ______' label. Just need to know if structure, tone, circuitry, etc, are up to par with the best of'em. Some folks here have strong opinions about Ampeg gear between their original vs SLM vs Loud production, etc.

I'd like to see some replies from anyone with a good handle on Ampeg's production history, so I guess I'd just like to know if this is as good a deal as it sounds like, or if I'd be better off holding out for a new(er) or older (different era) model.


JimmyM, looking in your direction!

Thanks!!!

 

[beans-on-toast]

If it is noisy or picking up radio stations you might need to pick up a new set of tubes to replace the cheaper pre-amp ones that it came with. That would add to the expense. The power tubes should be fine.

In general with Vietnam amps, if you have a good one out of the box, you will be fine. Check the cabinet over for quality issues.

 

[coreyfyfe]

I wouldn't be concerned with the differences. That only other major thing that changed between US and Korea/Vietnam/China product was the output transformer because the US maker got out of the business. However, a transformer machine wound to the same specs with the same components should sound the same, so I wouldn't be concerned. There's a member on here who disassembled and tested (including the OT) two SVT-II-Pro amps, one MIA one Asian manufacture and found them to be identical. It's anecdotal, but it's about as level headed a response you'll find when people start discussing country of origin/manufacture.


Found it here:

Just another data point to consider:

I like to buy "American Made" gear, but I have to admit that sometimes "American Made" leads to paying a price premium that the product doesn't deserve from a quality standpoint. The quality of some of the gear that's made overseas is REALLY GOOD.

As an example of this, I'm going to compare two SVT-2 Pro amps that I recently bought. One is an SLM/Made in America amp, the other is a LOUD/Designed in USA/Made in Korea amp. Just as you'd expect, I had to pay a price premium for the USA amp, and I got a significant discount on the Korean amp.

I'm an engineer, and being an engineer, the first thing that I did when I got both amps home was to completely disassemble them both, removing every tube, every circuit board, every jumper wire, every screw. I've compared the quality of the components on the boards, the quality of the pots, the quality of the transformers, everything. I tested every cap for capacitance and ESR to verify that none were out of tolerance. I measured the resistance of every single resistor on every board to verify that every resistor was in tolerance. I tested all the tubes and blueprinted the magnetic/inductive properties of the transformers.

The bottom line? Everything is the same -- even the magnetic properties of the iron is indistinguishable between the two amps.

Then I reassembled both amps, put them on the bench, and drove them at full output into resistive loads, measuring distortion on a Hewlett-Packard distortion analyzer. Both amps were the same.

Then I did a listening test. That's when the surprise came ... both amps had the righteous tone of an SVT!

I've had these amps for a little over a month now. In every respect, these two amps are EXACTLY the same. They are indistinguishable from one another. If I were blindfolded, I couldn't tell them apart by listening to them. With a blindfold removed, I couldn't tell them apart if I weren't looking at the copyright notices and the manufacturing codes on the printed circuit boards and the chassis.

If everyone agrees that the USA-made product is better and is worth more, then if and when it ever becomes time for me to let one of these amps go, then I'm going to sell the Made-in-USA SLM amp because it will bring more money, and I'll keep the Korean/LOUD amp. The Korean "Crate-Peg" SVT really is every bit as good as the USA model, in spite of what the naysayers want you to believe.

If resale prices seem low, then it's probably due to the fact that unemployment is so high and prices are low because the economy is tough. That means that it's a bad time to be selling and a good time to be buying.

 

[WretchedExcess]

I seem to remember hearing that some of the Viet-Pegs allegedly had loose ribbon connectors. If that were a problem it'd be easy enough to fix by bending a few pins to re-tension the connector.

 

[JimmyM]

Ribbon connector in an SVT-CL? First I've heard of that.

Anyway, I've played them all, from vintage SVT's to newer CL, VR, 2 Pro and non-pro...and as long as they work, I'm happy with any SVT.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Ribbon connector in an SVT-CL? First I've heard of that.

Some pics of the internals here. A factor of modern production, and as long as the connection is solid shouldn't be an issue.

 

[JimmyM]

Well looky there! You learn something new every day! Cool, Corey...thanks!

 

[Vintagefiend]

pros : tone machine, never need another amp
cons : heavy, doesn't look as cool as a V4-B, VR, or II

$900??

I'd snatch it on up.

 

[beans-on-toast]

A factor of modern production, and as long as the connection is solid shouldn't be an issue.

Most equipment is built with connectors like that today. They make devices easier to manufacture and service.

They can be an issue when it comes to roadworthiness. Some techs put a dab of silicon on them to help hold the connectors in place when they are servicing an amp to make it more roadworthy. It's easy to remove if need be. One advantage that the vintage amps have over modern ones is that the connections within the pre and power amps are point to point soldered.

In general though, so much gear is computer based, full of ribbon connectors. You can't avoid them.

 

[jason the fox]

Thanks for the input, folks.

The amp is located about a 5 hour drive from me, but I plan on taking a trip that way next month anyway. I was already in touch with the seller. There's a good chance I'll buy it if he still has it by then.

I ordered an SVT-810e today. Gonna need a new amp for it My SVT-3pro won't look as cool up there lol.

I might only have a reason to take that rig out once a year, but it'll be worth having either way.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Thanks for the input, folks.

The amp is located about a 5 hour drive from me, but I plan on taking a trip that way next month anyway. I was already in touch with the seller. There's a good chance I'll buy it if he still has it by then.

I ordered an SVT-810e today. Gonna need a new amp for it My SVT-3pro won't look as cool up there lol.

I might only have a reason to take that rig out once a year, but it'll be worth having either way.

My SVTCL/810e rig ended my bass amp GAS.

 

[jason the fox]

My SVTCL/810e rig ended my bass amp GAS.

I'm thinking it'll do the same for me lol. Hopefully this will get it out of my system.

I've got amp/cab combo's for small gigs, acoustic/quiet gigs, and medium/club sized rock gigs. Figured I might as well cover all the bases. Good to have a well rounded repertoire.

I think high powered tube amp and huge cabinet to a bass player is like the typical 100 watt Marshall + 412 cabinet to a guitar player. Even if its too big for most of your gigs and rarely leaves the house, you just need to have it.

 

[jason the fox]

Just an update here.

I emailed the seller again last week - I was going to arrange a trip to pick up the amp this week, but I haven't heard back from him.

I ended up getting in touch with another guy who is selling an SVT in similar condition (like new), for $950 (the original one I was interested in was selling for $900).
This one includes a padded cover from Ampeg too, which is cool.

Best part about this deal is I'll be getting the amp later today. Pretty pumped. I have an SVT 810e on order, but until that arrives, I don't have a 4 ohm cab to play though lol. (or a good workable combo of 8 ohms cabs - I have an SVT-410he, a Traynor TC-210, an SVT-115e, and an Ampeg Mirco-CL 210).

Just out of curiosity, what kind of harm is there in running a 4ohm amp into an 8ohm load? I've done some digging online but haven't come across a solid answer. Seem like there are people totally against it, and some people say it's ok.

All I know is that running your amp into a lesser load (ie 8ohm into a 4ohm cabinet) is a great way to cook your amp.

And running your amp into a higher load (4ohm into an 8ohm cab) means your amp won't be making as much power if you push it, due to the higher resistance - but how harmful is that?

 

[coreyfyfe]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of harm is there in running a 4ohm amp into an 8ohm load? I've done some digging online but haven't come across a solid answer. Seem like there are people totally against it, and some people say it's ok.

All I know is that running your amp into a lesser load (ie 8ohm into a 4ohm cabinet) is a great way to cook your amp.

And running your amp into a higher load (4ohm into an 8ohm cab) means your amp won't be making as much power if you push it, due to the higher resistance - but how harmful is that?

The impedance mismatching issue is opposite for tube and solid state. With a solid state amp going higher-than-rated is better you just get lower output. With a tube amp, you can do a mismatch either way, but lower is better. An SVT OT is robust enough that running it at lower volume with an 8 ohm cab shouldn't do any damage. Overtime, especially if you're really pushing the amp it's not a good idea. In either direction, a mismatch on the OT is going to reduce output because it puts the tubes in unfavorable loading conditions.

 

[georgestrings]

Tube amps and SS/hybrids act differently regarding speaker loads - with SS/hybrids, going lower than their impedence ratings is a no-no, and can cause the magic smoke to be released.... With tube amps, going higher can have a similar effect - IIRC, it's due to stressing the output transformer... If it were me, *I* wouldn't do it... I've heard plenty of stories of people running an SVT thru an 8 ohm load, without having any troubles - and I suppose you might get away with it if you didn't push it too hard - BUT, you also might screw up your new amp - and there are plenty of stories of people needing repair work on those amps - I have to wonder if some of those amps were used with 8 ohm loads...


- georgestrings

 

[jason the fox]

With a tube amp, you can do a mismatch either way, but lower is better. An SVT OT is robust enough that running it at lower volume with an 8 ohm cab shouldn't do any damage. Overtime, especially if you're really pushing the amp it's not a good idea. In either direction, a mismatch on the OT is going to reduce output because it puts the tubes in unfavorable loading conditions.

Lower - as in lower impedance cabinet, or lower impedance rating on the amp?

I've always thought that running the amp into a cabinet of lower impedance is bad - with not enough resistance, you can fry your amp's output section.

 

[jason the fox]

Tube amps and SS/hybrids act differently regarding speaker loads - with SS/hybrids, going lower than their impedence ratings is a no-no, and can cause the magic smoke to be released.... With tube amps, going higher can have a similar effect - IIRC, it's due to stressing the output transformer... If it were me, *I* wouldn't do it... I've heard plenty of stories of people running an SVT thru an 8 ohm load, without having any troubles - and I suppose you might get away with it if you didn't push it too hard - BUT, you also might screw up your new amp - and there are plenty of stories of people needing repair work on those amps - I have to wonder if some of those amps were used with 8 ohm loads...


- georgestrings

It's mostly like not worth the risk anyway - but I was just curious. My SVT-810e won't likely arrive for another week or so, but I'm not desperate to use the new amp at this point.

It's just in case I decide to fiddle with the amp a bit, try out some different tones and sounds in the mean time. I've heard people have done it with no problems, but I wouldn't push the amp to any serious volume, and I wouldn't gig with a mismatched pairing like that.

 

[georgestrings]

Lower - as in lower impedance cabinet, or lower impedance rating on the amp?

I've always thought that running the amp into a cabinet of lower impedance is bad - with not enough resistance, you can fry your amp's output section.

SVTs are made to handle either a 4 ohm or 2 ohm load - and not an 8 ohm load...


- georgestrings

 

[Immigrant]

Wouldn't the Ampeg 410 and 115 be a combined rating of 4 ohms? I know that running mismatched cabs is the reputational equivalent of being a child molester in prison here, but wouldn't it work until the OP gets his 810?

I miss my CL and it's intestinal discomfort inducing awesomeness.

 

[jason the fox]

SVTs are made to handle either a 4 ohm or 2 ohm load - and not an 8 ohm load...


- georgestrings

Oh I know.. that's why I brought up the topic, just trying to confirm whether or not I'll screw up my amp if I run it into a higher impedance cab.

I've always thought running (for example) an amp at 8 ohms into a 4 ohm (lower impedance then the head) was very bad. But it seems that people are more on the fence about going the opposite way (lower impedance amp into a higher impedance cab).

I've read some people it won't hurt the amp at all - but you just get less power. I wouldn't be pushing the volume either way.