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Any Reason to use an EQ or Compressor along with my Eden WT1205?
- Thread starter raferalston
- Start date
I've never cared for the built-in compressor on any amp, even though the one on the Navigator is better than most. I find that it doesn't really add anything to the tone, and can sound intrusive ("pumping" etc.).
I much prefer a Cali76CB, or even better a dbx676 (racked with my Aguilar DB680) or a Symetrix 501 (racked with my Navigator preamp), but those are personal preferences honed by years of trial-and-error.
I much prefer a Cali76CB, or even better a dbx676 (racked with my Aguilar DB680) or a Symetrix 501 (racked with my Navigator preamp), but those are personal preferences honed by years of trial-and-error.
I’d chalk it up to people just liking what they like.. maybe not necessary but an artistic choice…
I've honestly never felt the need to use a compressor in my live rig. And if the EQ on the Eden isn't enough to make your bass sound the way you want, then maybe your bass is more of a problem than the amp?
The EQ on that Eden is very flexible, powerful and it sounds really good. You’re not likely to need additional EQ.
The onboard limiter is meh. If you like compression you’ll probably be happier with an external unit.
The “enhance” just scoops the heck out of the mids. I’m not a fan. I leave it at zero on Eden heads. I love the tone of the old Eden heads but I avoid the enhance and the limiter.
The onboard limiter is meh. If you like compression you’ll probably be happier with an external unit.
The “enhance” just scoops the heck out of the mids. I’m not a fan. I leave it at zero on Eden heads. I love the tone of the old Eden heads but I avoid the enhance and the limiter.
As a long time Eden user, I agree. to OP - Explore what the EQ has to offer before you do anything as it can do a lot. I would expect an outboard comp will leave you more satisfied than the onboard...but try it first.
The Wt1205 eq section isn't as adjustable as the Wt800 (lots of eq knobs on that amp that are split between two channels), but you should be able to get a great sound without more anyway. The onboard compressors on these never thrilled anyone. Back when the Eden forum was alive and well, the most popular suggestion was to pair these heads with a DBX 160A or similar. That’s what I ended up with as the compression on my WT400 is harsh.
To my ears and in my experience with the one-knob Eden “compressor” is that it is more of a peak-limiter. It’s perfectly functional but doesn’t replace a more sophisticated compressor.
The Navigator EQ is pretty complex - maybe too much of a good thing. Must Eden players run their EQ pretty flat anyway. Beware the “enhance” knob.
The Navigator EQ is pretty complex - maybe too much of a good thing. Must Eden players run their EQ pretty flat anyway. Beware the “enhance” knob.
FullumMusic
Commercial User
- Oct 13, 2022
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- 5,688
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- Audio/Music software developer, contracted with a company you've heard of and deving my own stuff.
It's only not sufficient if you've ever been in a situation where your amp's EQ or Compressor were incapable of adjusting the frequencies and dynamic range of your signal in a useful way, leaving you with a completely unusable tone for the situation. (I posit a guess that that's never happened and your amp's EQ and Compressor have always sufficed.)
If your amp's EQ and Compressor successfully achieve the tones you need in various situations, they're all you need. I spent a decade gigging without any pedals. Just my 2 basses and an Eden Metro + 2x10 + tweeter, and another Eden 4x10 below that. Exactly zero times were a separate EQ or Compressor required.
As to why Phil Lesh and Mike Gordon used them, i couldn't say. People like what they like. Maybe they liked those two tools more than the amp's. Maybe it was something specific to what their sound engineers set them up with to use on their arena sized PA system that most of us aren't playing through. Maybe they had a split signal, and their amp tone didn't go to FOH, so they used that EQ & Comp to treat the signal going to FOH. Maybe they're victims of GAS like the rest of us. Maybe they use the Amp's EQ & Comp with those two pedals off, except for certain songs where they need drastically different EQ and Compression, and turn the on & off accordingly. Who knows? I guess, they know. Not us.
Just for $*@7s & giggles, message Mike Gordon and ask his reasoning as to why he uses the EQ and Compressor when his amp already has them? Who knows? He might reply.
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If it hasn't been asked already, my instinctual question with posts like these and titles like these, is: As best you can articulate, what problem are you trying to fix that causes you to consider additional things in your signal chain? Or is it that your heroes (and those guys are admittedly great) use whatever the gear is, so tell me why I should have one too?
FullumMusic
Commercial User
- Oct 13, 2022
- 2,010
- 5,688
- Disclosures
- Audio/Music software developer, contracted with a company you've heard of and deving my own stuff.
It's not so much what they offer that the Eden EQ doesn't. Obviously they offer different things. Obviously dedicated outboard gear is going to be more robust. A few of the possible reasons i suggested for Lesh and Gordon using them are are completely congruent with the differences you point out, especially the parts i mentioned about interacting with the PA Systems.
The OP didn't ask which EQ has more features. They asked if the Eden's EQ and Comp were somehow insufficient. And to that, going through all the Meyer EQ's features is a moot point because that has nothing to do with whether or not the Eden EQ is sufficient. All that matters in judging if the Eden's EQ sufficient or deficient is whether or not the OP was ever in a situation where the Eden EQ has prevented them from achieving a usable tone.
If they find they can't get a useable tone in various situations from the Eden EQ... if the amp's EQ is preventing them from achieving a useable tone, then it's insufficient. If they've been using their amp's EQ for years without feeling limited by it, then it's sufficient and they don't need to start adding redundant tools to do the same job as the tool they already have that achieves their goals.
The Eden WT1205 EQ will pretty easily dial in a your sound without much trouble if you spend some time to get to know the EQ section. It's a simplified EQ compared to the WT series amps which use the three semi-parametric controls besides bass and treble. With the 1205 in EQ channel 1,the Bass EQ control is centered at 30Hz, the Low-mid control is centered at 550Hz, the high-mid is centered at 2.2KHZ and the Treble control is centered at 11KHz. Beware of cutting the low-mids very much. You will dial yourself right out of the mix as you cut those frequencies. Conversely, if you boost them too much your sound will honk at you. So just slowly reduce the boost until that "honk" goes away.
Channel 2 is the Master Channel and you must be plugged into that channel if you want to switch back and forth between the two channels. The difference in the EQ in Channel 2 is that instead of a low-mid and a high-mid control, there is a sweepable mids control that you can set anywhere from 250Hz up to 2.5KHz., whatever you prefer. The Bass and Treble controls are the same as in Channel 1. And yes, you can plug a bass into each of the two channels, set up the EQ and gain separately for each and switch between the two with the footswitch or the button on the face of the amp as desired.
Another thing that will have a HUGE effect on your EQ is the "Enhance Control". Be very careful how you use this. It will boost the bass and the treble while scooping out the Low-mids and slightly boosting the upper mids. A lot of folks on the old Eden forum would run this control up to ~9 o'clock and leave everything else flat. This Enhance control sounds good in moderation, but if you dial this control up much above 9 o'clock, you're going to lose your presence and definition in the mix. Certainly by the time you've reached noon on that control your bass' presence and definition is gone. It works great for low-level playing because we can hear the mids easily at low levels, but we lose the bass and treble pretty quickly. So it's great for low-level playing.
It also sounds good when you are set up for a solo on one of the two channels without having to compete with guitar and keys for your sonic space. If you do solos, it's easy to set one of the channels up for solo and one for normal and switch back and forth between them as needed. There's also a There's a lot of things you can do with that amp because it has two EQ sections that can be run separately and switched back and forth with or even run both channels at once.
A great option on this amp for low-level playing is the Dynamic Boost button at the end of each channel. You can leave your EQ set up for performance as usual but push in the buttons as needed for bass and/or treble at lower levels. With those buttons engaged the EQ will automatically change according the Fletcher-Munson relative loudness curve as you change the level of your sound without the need to twist any other dials.
I personally use a 1982 Jazz Bass with an all-maple neck and 70's era pickup spacing (4" center to center). Presuming there are no room anomalies I need to EQ to compensate for, I just run my EQ flat and boost my low-mids at 250Hz up to 1:30. If I'm recording, my bass sounds amazing with that same low-mid boost but at 550Hz instead of 250Hz. I usually run the rest of the EQ flat and that gets me where I need to be. YMMV so play around with each control until you are familiar how each one is affecting your sound with your bass.
The Adjustable compressor on the WT1205 works well for most uses. It's a one knob control that increases how quickly the compression threshold is reached and how large of a ratio it will use. It will automatically adjust the rest of it as you turn it up or down. I have this same control on my WTDI (DI stompbox with Eden WT preamp built in) and although I don't use it much, IMHO it's far better than the auto-compressor on the other WT amps. Try this first to see how it works for you. If you need more than this, I would be looking for a pedal that has threshold, ratio, attack, and release control. It's also nice if it has a selector for soft-knee or hard-knee, which is an overall setting.
I don't often use my compressor because my bass has excellent sustain. That control can easily take you from just adding a little more sustain to what I call a "Farfisa Organ" sound and anywhere in-between. That organ sounds has no attack on the note; smaller dynamic range or none at all (everything sounds at the same level regardless of how hard or softly you pluck the string) and it holds out the note at the same level with no decay as long as you have the note fretted. So it can be used to augment the sound of your bass if you want, or use it as an effect because the original was recorded with a huge amount of compression. Basically the higher you turn it, the more sustain you get and the smaller the dynamics range will become until there is no range.
OK, so that's a lot of info. If you don't already have it, I've attached a pdf copy of the Operation Manual for the WT1205 for your reference. Pay particular attention to the section titled INITIAL SET UP that you'll find on Page 12. That will save you a lot of frustration in getting the amp to produce its best sound with your bass.
The simplest answer is this:
I like particular compressors because I have grown to like the way that they sound.
My favorite comp (which I use for recording) is a dbx 160SL (and the 676 in my rack gets me 85% of the way there). For my ears and for how I physically play the instrument, nothing else sounds quite as "buttery-smooth" or "velvety" and it's simply a joy to play through.
The problems are that 1) everyone plays differently; 2) everyone listens/hears differently; 3) everyone has different tone goals. Ideally, we choose gear because it gets us further into the "zone" and closer to the purest version of personal expression.
I’ve had several Eden heads. You need to understand the basic principle of Input driven compression (as on WT, Nemesis heads and the WTDI pedal) . and read the owner’s manual to learn how to set it up for optimal results. The compression on the Navigator WT-100 preamp is optical and has a threshold and ratio controls and gives you much more control.
Frankly, I’m sure there are more than a few compression units out there where you can get better results. It’s a good feature to have on an integrated head, and to a certain extent will offer some limited protection for your speakers .
In my case, I don’t have a use a squashed sound, as I don’t slap, but knowing it’s there barely audible make me more relaxed.
Hope this helps.
Symetrix has always been my favorite. used one for Chapman Stick and guitar synth.
