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Any relation...Behringer/Ashdown???

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#141
This is why I hate B-threads. They always get personal. People on both sides of the fence get frustrated and pissed and for what?

All of you who defend Behringer: face the facts, the company is playing a dirty game. The fact that others have done the same thing doesn´t make it any more acceptable. There´s no way around it.

And to the other camp: I understand that Behringers practices make you angry. Fine. Educate the public, spread the word about Behringers misdemeanors. But don´t force your principles on people. Just lay the facts on table and let the folks make their own conclusions. Maybe they won´t agree with you but hey, that´s life. You won´t accomplish anything by trying to lay the guilt on them. Fight the company, not your fellow TBers.

I heard about a guy, that once said:"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". AFAIK he was not a bassist, but a pretty smart dude anyway.
 
#143
remember: mesa boogie started off altering fender amps, now look at them, are fender still in buisness? yes

but are you also going "sue" the band jet for stealing an iggy pop song?, or all the hip hop artists who have sampled other music, vanilla ice, mc hammer, a tribe called quest, coolio, etc etc...what about what werid al is doing? instead of changing cheap parts, he's changing lyrics..

what about warwick? they started by taking aria pro bass, chopping the wings off and making them headless..

i have no problem with what behringer are doing, sure, mackie went out of buisness, but thats because they were greedy and wanted to get rid of behringer, and see what happened? i beleive they put themselves in the rut themselves....personally if someone was copying something id designed id feel proud...

in buisness, i beleive theres no right or wrong, just a fight to survive..but any of you who are dissing behringer, are their practises actually threatening you? are they going to make you homeless, poor or anything like that, you as the consumer have the choice to buy what you want, buy the product you like, you dont like behringer, buy the higher class stuff, personallly, i like behringer,
 
#145
Mark Latimour said:
I imagine right now there is foam brewing at the mouth of many of you in respect of a post on this page.

My advice...let it go....some people's views will never conincide with yours, no matter how objectively wrong they appear to be.
Click to expand...

THAT post and others that follow the same "logic" (a term I have to stretch the very definition of to even use) are the reason these threads get ugly.
 
#146
First post, so bear with me...

I don't think anyone sees Behringer as a high-quality or high-end brand. People (like me) who need to upgrade quickly and cheaply are the bread and butter of Behringer's market. I bought my BX3000T because my 50W Ampeg BA-112 doesn't cut it in a band environment. I don't have the time to save up another $3-400 for a higher-end piece of gear right now. When I can, I will, but right now I'm doing the ghetto thing. The point is that these products are a stepping stone to almost anyone who is serious about gear. I know I don't plan on having the BX for more than 6 months to a year.

Behringer has the reputation for bass that Crate has for guitar amps. Cheap and loud. I doubt anyone who buys a BX is interested in keeping them long-term. Most people will eventually upgrade and purchase a higher-end amp from a more "respected" manufacturer.
 
#147
Behringer is a greedy company, no doubt.

That said, I don't see the ashdown thing at all.

After thinking that the Behringer was a photo-copy, I went finally and looked at the MAG vs the Behringer.

They do NOT look more than sort -of similar.

They are bass amps, and they have a meter. That's about it.

I would not confuse one with the other.

Are we saying that inside they are copies? Because there are a different number of knobs on the two, different front panel, etc.

If a company makes a copy that clearly is intended to be so identical that a person would confuse the two, I think about that entirely differently than if they make a simiar but different product.

That said, I HATE BEHRINGER.

I have seen their QSC copy....inside....and it is.
 
#148
mike_v_s said:
THAT post and others that follow the same "logic" (a term I have to stretch the very definition of to even use) are the reason these threads get ugly.
Click to expand...

Nah...

These threads get ugly because some participants feel compelled to tell others how they should spend, or how they should have spent, their money....

In this one, one poster was even driven to remark...

Robear22 said:
I didn't know I was on trial here!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Imagine that. The nerve of some people. Having the audacity to be offended when some well-meaning ethical consumerism advocate tries to tell them how to manage their personal finances.

:scowl:
 
#150
Eight pages of Behringer "disscussion" and still not closed!
A new record I think and a testament to the growing tolerance and maturity of most of the current posters. :eyebrow: Welcome to you new guys too. It's good to have you on TB. :)

The "beer crew" have no doubt long ago passed out and fallen asleep and will probably miss anything that happens from here on.

Current score analyisis ( IMO.)

Behringer prosecutors:
These people either have personally been affected, or have a friend/acquaintance who has been affected by the said company's business practices.
They feel morally obliged to bad mouth Behringer at every given opportunity. This has the effect of placing a burden of guilt on anyone who happens to own a piece of Behringer gear.

----------------------------------------------------
Behringer Defendants:
This group no doubt feel genuinely sorry for anyone who may have been hurt by Behringer's rumoured tactics, but they also feel sorry for themselves and they resent guilt being foisted on them. This is especially the case, if they are on a shoestring budget, with very little money available after allowing for Wife, kids, house, car, skateboard, whatever.

These individuals will feel sorrier for themselves and their own situation than they do for someone that they don't even know who has reportedly been cheated by Behringer, and their sentiments will duly overwhelm the social stigma involved. They will spend their money on whatever represents best value to them.
 
#151
I was going to let it go, but Weird Al had to be pulled into this. There are some lines that shouldn't be crossed. :smug:

heath_the_great said:
but are you also going "sue" the band jet for stealing an iggy pop song?
Click to expand...

If it's close enough to be proven a rip-off, than yes. It's been done many times before - some win, some lose.

or all the hip hop artists who have sampled other music, vanilla ice, mc hammer, a tribe called quest, coolio, etc etc...
Click to expand...

There's been many a lawsuit as to the usage of samples in hip-hop. There's no "set" answer, but there's also a huge difference between rapping over the majority of a song (Puffy) and construction a new song based around a multitude of short repeated riffs and phrases ("true" sampling). Also, in more recent years hip-hop artists have "cleared" samples, gaining permission to use the sample and, usually, paying an up-front fee and/or a cut of the royalties to the original artist.

what about what werid al is doing? instead of changing cheap parts, he's changing lyrics...
Click to expand...

...and he's also always credited the originally writers legally, who then maintain their legal rights and a share of the profits. Read his liner notes and album credits.

Unintelligent gibberish with a distinct lack of punctuation and grammar, but I'll take this one on: "personally if someone was copying something id designed id feel proud..."
Click to expand...

More likely you'd feel anger, a lack of options as one person fighting a large multinational corporation, and broke. But go ahead: post a unique bassline under the condition that you've given up your legal rights to it, and let others use it as they may.

Money>mouth.

you dont like behringer, buy the higher class stuff, personallly, i like behringer,
Click to expand...

I don't. I have. Congratulations, would you like a cookie? :rolleyes:

Edit: clarification of the term "cleared".
 
#152
Nick man said:
The guys from Ashdown are the guys from Trace Elliot.
Click to expand...

Not quite. Ashdown was a company started up by Mark Gooday. He was the MD of Trace from 1986 to 1997 when he and Kaman, who owned the company at the time, decided to part ways. That's the way he put it. Their Manufacuring Director at the time put it slightly differently:

"...he was removed uncerremoniously by Kaman after he drove the company into its darkest period."

That sounds a bit bitter to me (this was said when Trace was going down the tubes)

I own a Trace Elliot rig and have used Ashdown ABM heads a lot. As I understand it, the Ashdown borrows heavily from a Trace design... but then I've never had the chance to compare an old valve Trace with the Ashdown. I will say that I really like the Ashdown amps, and would probably go with one if I was buying a new rig. I don't much like the subharmonic thing though...

Originality is not that common in amplifier design. early Marshalls used a fender design, as did Boogies. Ashdown guitar amps use a Hiwatt design. Trace were bought by Gibson after they had resurrected the old Goldtone design.
 
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