Any trade offs with GR Bass?

[micguy]

Does GR have a patent on this material for cabinets ?
If not why haven't the other builders added this to their line ?

Carbon fiber is an interesting material. It is heavier than wood - about 3x the density of maple. This may confuse you, but it is, as a bulk material, not that light. It's often used to replace steel, and in that case, it is much lighter than what it is replacing - that's where it got it's reputation as being light.

Anyway, when replacing wood, carbon fiber has to be hollow, or used in very thin sections to avoid being too heavy. You have to design a more complicated structure so it can survive the bumps of the real world. Carbon fiber also has little damping. Wood has more. You need some damping in this application or the thing will ring, which isn't good. So, if you want to make a speaker cabinet using carbon fiber, you have to incorporate other materials to supply what carbon fiber doesn't have by itself - it's more complicated to make a decent speaker enclosure with this stuff.

It's also got very nasty dust - it's more a health hazard to work with than wood, so designing a process to make things with it, and keep the people around it safe is more complicated (and therefore expensive) than setting up a wood shop. Carbon fiber also dulls tools quickly - keeping tools sharp is more expensive with carbon fiber.

 

[jimmydean]

Except for the cost , only positives with their gear . I have bought a AT410 , AT210 , AT212 , One 700 and One 350 amp(s) ......fantastic gear and who hates moving heavy gear at the end of a gig ?

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I've owned two Barefaced BB2s and a Super Mini, and now own a Super Twin. All well built, durable, and fantastic sound. I almost bought a GR carbon fiber 212 but didn't feel comfortable with the design. The metal edges are dent magnets, the corners look flimsy, and the surface appearance of the CF sides looks weird to me. Biggest draw was the ultra light weight, but that wasn't enough to surmount the other issues. While the GR/CF models satisfy some buyers, I have zero regrets with Barefaced.

 

[RGerhart]

I personally don't like the modern and techy look of carbon fiber, but they also have another range of cabs called "Natural Fiber" made of linen fiber I believe, that have the same properties as carbon fiber but look more… natural.

Here's my NF210V - same incredible sound and weight as the AT210V, but with a different finish:

View attachment 5457457

Wow. Beautiful. You just sold me on that one.

 

[jimmydean]

The only negative about GR Bass cabs is that they are easy to dent , so treat them nice and keep those covers on when transporting .

 

[wintremute]

The only negative about GR Bass cabs is that they are easy to dent , so treat them nice and keep those covers on when transporting .

Easy to dent? With which ones did you have that experience? The carbon fiber ones are harder to dent than regular cabs.

 

[gtirard]

I invite to read the Official GR Bass Club and discover real feedback from owners.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/official-gr-bass-club.1509358/

I've seen a few complains about the plastic corners and the ruber feet, but no report of dents as far as I know.
Some people "have the feeling" that it's fragile because it's so lightweight, but hey, what can we do about that?

 

[Barticus]

The only negative about GR Bass cabs is that they are easy to dent , so treat them nice and keep those covers on when transporting .

Can you please post some pictures of the dents you're referencing?

I own multiple cabs and have not experienced this and would like to see the pics if this has happened.

 

[Djadja]

I may be seeking another cab in the future, I have good experience with Genzler, and Laney cabs and have spent a good amount of time with a Bergantino 212 cab so I guess I can say I like them. But I've also been curious about the "super light" category which is dominated by Barefaced and GR Bass in my opinion. GR Bass has two dealers near me, and I've played around with a few of their cabs like the 610 and 112 at Chuck Levin's. I'm not a fan of playing super loud at music stores though, its always been with a bass at chucks and a GR head rather than one of my basses and on of my heads (Fuchs and Genzler).

My question is does anyone with gigging and at home experience find that they loose out on something with a GR Bass cab in trade of the crazy light weight? When pit against something like say, Genzler, Mesa, or Berg cabs, would they be lacking in body or warmth?
I love hi fi cabs, but not shrill cabs. For context I like to play hard rock and also softer jazz like stuff at times. My only cab at the moment is the Laney 410 I leave at church, it's great cab but not necessarily very portable, it's close to 80 pounds and it bulky enough to make transport with my Sedan not the easiest, but a great cab nonetheless.

Jason, I'm in a similar boat as you - thinking about purchasing a GR 212 slim. I've got some joint issues that push me to significantly lighter weight. I am currently playing first generation Genzler BA12 & BA10. I love the 12 and like the 10. I think about replacing them with 2nd generation Genzlers but would like to go lower in weight than that. I've heard the Markbass cabs at GC and they sounded fine but didn't excite me. I experienced the GR cabs at the last 2 NAMMs. They were playing significantly louder than the volume police allow there and they sounded great… very punchy. Nothing that I have seen even compares to the weight. Lifting them, you'll wonder whether they forgot the speakers.
I have heard about damage to corners if they're dropped.

 

[Jason Bonilla]

Jason, I'm in a similar boat as you - thinking about purchasing a GR 212 slim. I've got some joint issues that push me to significantly lighter weight. I am currently playing first generation Genzler BA12 & BA10. I love the 12 and like the 10. I think about replacing them with 2nd generation Genzlers but would like to go lower in weight than that. I've heard the Markbass cabs at GC and they sounded fine but didn't excite me. I experienced the GR cabs at the last 2 NAMMs. They were playing significantly louder than the volume police allow there and they sounded great… very punchy. Nothing that I have seen even compares to the weight. Lifting them, you'll wonder whether they forgot the speakers.
I have heard about damage to corners if they're dropped.

went to my local GR dealer (Chuck Levin's in MD). And spent some time with the 4ohm 212, 4ohm 210 and 8ohm 112. I have to admit the the 212 didn't wow me for some reason. It was the standard larger version, not the slim, which to me is a plus. I ended up liking the 4ohm 210 the most interms of size and partly sound, though I'm a sucker for 212s. I asked them to ring me up for a 4ohm 210 and they ended up bringing me a 210V (slim) version in the box, I asked if they had any new boxes standard non slim versions and unfortunately the display was the only one left, they offered me the ability to open up the new packaged slim and compare it to the standard version, I took them up on that offer and I'm glad I did, the standard one sounds so much better to my ears and I ended up buying the display model. The slim seemed to have a more forward punch and tighter high end, but the standard version had a "wider" tone and more depth to the lows and mids in my opinion. Glad I trusted my intuition on this one. After going back and forth between the two knowing I like the wider one better I asked another bassist that walked in what he thought, and he agreed that the standard sounded better to him.

 

[gtirard]

went to my local GR dealer (Chuck Levin's in MD). And spent some time with the 4ohm 212, 4ohm 210 and 8ohm 112. I have to admit the the 212 didn't wow me for some reason. It was the standard larger version, not the slim, which to me is a plus. I ended up liking the 4ohm 210 the most interms of size and partly sound, though I'm a sucker for 212s. I asked them to ring me up for a 4ohm 210 and they ended up bringing me a 210V (slim) version in the box, I asked if they had any new boxes standard non slim versions and unfortunately the display was the only one left, they offered me the ability to open up the new packaged slim and compare it to the standard version, I took them up on that offer and I'm glad I did, the standard one sounds so much better to my ears and I ended up buying the display model. The slim seemed to have a more forward punch and tighter high end, but the standard version had a "wider" tone and more depth to the lows and mids in my opinion. Glad I trusted my intuition on this one. After going back and forth between the two knowing I like the wider one better I asked another bassist that walked in what he thought, and he agreed that the standard sounded better to him.
View attachment 5462572

Welcome to the club

Your comment regarding the tone of the 210V compared to the 210 is interesting, because I thought they were very similar - I didn't have the chance to try them before bying, after GR Bass staff told me the 212 and 212 slim sound almost exactly the same (I thought it was the same for the 10s).

I find my 210V a little bit too tight, or should I say, just a little bit lacking in deep lows compared to my Barefaced Super Compact, so maybe the 210 would have been a better choice for me. It's OK though because I much prefer the vertical form factor, and I can compensate with EQ, although it's not exactly the same result (I'm not too picky). But it's good to know anyway.

 

[Jason Bonilla]

Welcome to the club

Your comment regarding the tone of the 210V compared to the 210 is interesting, because I thought they were very similar - I didn't have the chance to try them before bying, after GR Bass staff told me the 212 and 212 slim sound almost exactly the same (I thought it was the same for the 10s).

I find my 210V a little bit too tight, or should I say, just a little bit lacking in deep lows compared to my Barefaced Super Compact, so maybe the 210 would have been a better choice for me. It's OK though because I much prefer the vertical form factor, and I can compensate with EQ, although it's not exactly the same result (I'm not too picky). But it's good to know anyway.

I'd like to say it was a negligible difference, but it was enough for me to take the display model over the brand new Vertical one out of the crate. It's really hard to explain, it sounded like the bigger cabinet space allowed the tone to "breathe" more, vertical 210s to me have always sounded like sound cannons that blast an undeniable midrange and make for a nice "loud" cab, but not much in terms of sonic detail or "personality" for lack of a better word.
I did like the very high frequencies more on the vertical one though. Of course it's all preference, but I am glad I decided to AB the two. Even since my first real amp rig which was a Genz Benz Shuttle combo(offset 210) with a vertical Genz Benz 210 extension cab, I always liked the sound of the standard cab more than the extension, they sounded great together though haha.

 

[Djadja]

went to my local GR dealer (Chuck Levin's in MD). And spent some time with the 4ohm 212, 4ohm 210 and 8ohm 112. I have to admit the the 212 didn't wow me for some reason. It was the standard larger version, not the slim, which to me is a plus. I ended up liking the 4ohm 210 the most interms of size and partly sound, though I'm a sucker for 212s. I asked them to ring me up for a 4ohm 210 and they ended up bringing me a 210V (slim) version in the box, I asked if they had any new boxes standard non slim versions and unfortunately the display was the only one left, they offered me the ability to open up the new packaged slim and compare it to the standard version, I took them up on that offer and I'm glad I did, the standard one sounds so much better to my ears and I ended up buying the display model. The slim seemed to have a more forward punch and tighter high end, but the standard version had a "wider" tone and more depth to the lows and mids in my opinion. Glad I trusted my intuition on this one. After going back and forth between the two knowing I like the wider one better I asked another bassist that walked in what he thought, and he agreed that the standard sounded better to him.
View attachment 5462572

All interesting and helpful Jason. thanks for the input.
Most of what I heard at NAMM was the 410… I loved it but it is clearly more than I need and each bump in price is an issue for me so… I was planning on the slim 212 for the smaller footprint and the possibility of moving more air. After your report, I may move to the larger size as the foot print would still be smaller than my Genzler BA12 but 12's are in the cards for me I think since this will be my only cab and I may need it with a louder band at some point.
Report back as you spend more time with it. Who knows, you may convince me that a 210 is enough.

 

[gtirard]

All interesting and helpful Jason. thanks for the input.
Most of what I heard at NAMM was the 410… I loved it but it is clearly more than I need and each bump in price is an issue for me so… I was planning on the slim 212 for the smaller footprint and the possibility of moving more air. After your report, I may move to the larger size as the foot print would still be smaller than my Genzler BA12 but 12's are in the cards for me I think since this will be my only cab and I may need it with a louder band at some point.
Report back as you spend more time with it. Who knows, you may convince me that a 210 is enough.

I've said it already on a different thread, sorry if I repeat myself: indeed, the sensitivity of the GR 210 is identical to the that of the 212! It means that the 210 is as loud as the 212, until you are using you amp with the 212 at max volume above the 210 max power handling.

Let's compare the 210+ @4 ohm and the 212+ @4 ohm, and let's say you are using a 800W amp.
Both cabs are rated 103 dB @ 1 meter (I think this sensitivity spec is exagerated by GR Bass, but I do think that both have the same, maybe 98 dB or 100 dB, because they must use the same measurement protocol for all their range if they are a little bit serious).

The only difference is that the power handling of the 210+ is 600W and 900W for the 212+
So you would only hear a volume difference if you really max the amp's master volume with the 212+, because with the 210+ you would have to remain under 600W on the amp.

I believe a lot of people buy a AT212 because there seems to be a religion in the community that "if you want to play loud you need a 212". But not all 210 and 212 cabs are equal, and a GR 210 might very well burry a 212 from other brands.

 

[Nebadon2000]

I hate to say it because I dislike the yellow color theme and the plastic material

This is 2nd mention of Markbass Cab with 'Plastic' here

Markbass stresses Cabs are Bio-Degradable so most likely not plastic

When it comes to Raw Speaker Manufacture Companies and Cabinet Types the Italians seem to be very innovative

Before I bought my Mesa 1x15 I strongly considered GR Bass and Barefaced; Mesa was readily available and easily returnable at the time so gave it first shot; It was a keeper 37lbs was fine

 

[Barticus]

rated 103 dB @ 1 meter

Can you please describe how this type of testing is actually performed? What's the physical set up and what equipment is used to do this type of measurement?

I keep reading that you doubt their measurements are accurate, but don't really understand how this measurement is done and why you feel their measurements are incorrect and/or specs are not accurate.

Can you please enlighten how this testing is properly performed?

 

[gtirard]

Can you please describe how this type of testing is actually performed? What's the physical set up and what equipment is used to do this type of measurement?

I keep reading that you doubt their measurements are accurate, but don't really understand how this measurement is done and why you feel their measurements are incorrect and/or specs are not accurate.

Can you please enlighten how this testing is properly performed?

Precisely, there's no standard protocol, that's the problem. Basically the sentivity is the measure of decidels, at a distance of 1 meter, that a cab produces from 1 W amplification. That's standard. There are a lot of factors that are not standard: the room acoustics, the distance of the cab from the wall, the frequency range… Some brands try to provide what they think is accurate and representative, other try to give the best possible figures. I'm not technical so I can't say more.

But I had had the feeling that GR Bass sensitivity figures were too good to be true
An Ampeg 810 has a sensitivity of 100 dB
A GR Bass 210 has a sensitiviy of 103 dB
It means that with the same amp, the GR 210 would be 3 dB louder than the Ampeg 810
I don't buy that. Not in the same room, measuring the same frequency range.

So I made a comparative test, with my Barefaced Super Compact (1x12, sensitivity 97 dB) and my GR 210 (sensitivity 103 dB)
The GR should have been 6 dB louder. It wasn't to my ears, and it wasn't with my smartphone decibel meter app
It's not scientific, but I can assure you that if you measure the 2 in the same conditions, the GR is not louder than the BF.

I don't say GR Bass is cheating, but their specs are very "optimistic", it's missleading anyway because it gives the false impression that it's louder.

More details here:
interesting comment from Boneless

With interesting comments from people that know much more than I do, including Wasnex, Agedhorse, and Alex Claber form Barefaced just to name a few. Gr bass staff didn't care to comment. There was also a very https://www.talkbass.com/threads/gr-bass-or-barefaced-best-efficiency-a-small-experiment.1644964/

If you read the GR Bass thread you will notice that a some clients report their cab is heavier than what's being communicated officially, they answered that the weight of each cab many vary of ± 5% and they publish an average weight (surprisingly, I never saw anybody saying their cab is lighter than it is supposed to be. If they publish an average figure, and some of them are heavier than average, then some others should be lighter).

Last, they published very missleading photos of the Natural Fiber range (much too light), I told them, they said they would make new photos but I suppose they are too busy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of GR Bass, just like you. I love my cab, I think it's super innovative, it sounds great, it's super lightweight, it's beautiful. Also they provide a first class customer support. But I think their misleading communication is not serving the brand reputation in the long run.

Sorry for the long comment.

 

[agedhorse]

There are sensitivity standards, they just need to be followed and the details of the measurements disclosed as part of the claimed spec.

For a bass reflex cabinet, there is a range of numbers that are possible, some that are barely possible and some that are impossible. Changing HOW a measurement is made can make impossible results appear possible.

 

[Djadja]

@Jason Bonilla , can you say a little more regarding what you preferred in the 210 vs. the 212? Given what @gtirard has said regarding sensitivity, a 210 is back in the running for me. I know that the stereotypes/common wisdom regarding speaker size is not accurate so… why the 210 vs. the 212?

 

[Relsom]

Can you please post some pictures of the dents you're referencing?

I own multiple cabs and have not experienced this and would like to see the pics if this has happened.

This got me wondering about the durability of the GR cabs and headed me to look into the Barefaced option. ...

Used Gr Bass AT 210V+ 600 Watt Bass Cabinet | Guitar Center

For greater savings check out our Used Gr Bass AT 210V+ 600 Watt Bass Cabinet and get a great deal today!

www.guitarcenter.com